Ranger Fan Central Graffiti Wall
Welcome New York Rangers fans and thank you for visiting our pages.We would love it if you would
some nice graffiti.
some nice graffiti.
Fri Sep 3 2010 8:03 am EST
I'm gonna put on my TD/Wildcard glasses and try to look at the upcoming season positively (at least for this post): I agree there's a possibility, if a whole bunch of things come together, the Rangers could have a good season (ie finish as high as 5th or 6th in the east). I see these as the following (in no particular order): The King has to stay healthly and be the King 2) Biron has to be able to adequately spell the King for 15 to 20 games, including the ability to play 2 to 3 consecutive games (getting a week off for the King a couple of times thru the season would no doubt do wonders) 3) At least 50 goals have to come from the combo of Callahan and Dubi, with Cally pushing the 30 mark (it's time for Cally to step up in his maturation as a player) 4) Gabbie has to stay healthy 5) Staal has to be signed and continue his development towards a legitimate number 1 d-man. His game was really coming together the final 1/3 of last season - he needs to build on that. 6) At least 2 other d-men behind Staal have to have solid seasons; it's irrelevant which ones, but at least 1/2 of the backline has to be consistently solid all year long 7) Someone has to prove to be at least a 1B first line center (by that I mean be able to contribute offensively - ie 60 points) - if I had to bet, I'd pick White, but only because he's done it before. 8) The team has to play with 'team toughness' - no more running the Ranger goalie with no retribution 9) At least 1 rookie needs to make the team and make a difference (if does happen, my bet is MZA) 10) Secondary scoring has to be experienced (which is tied in with the Cally/Dubi requirement earlier). 11) If injuries occur (and I can't believe the Rangers will continue not to suffer what virtually every other team has experienced), the farmhands must step up to fill the void. That's 11 significant factors - I'd argue that even if 2 of them aren't realized, the team will struggle to make the POs. Still, all of these are possible, so yes Dorothy, there is a chance for a successful season. Now wouldn't that be nice?!?!
RF4L
Fri Sep 3 2010 7:49 am EST
Messier: It's called incompetent GMs....
RF4L
Fri Sep 3 2010 6:32 am EST
"Kovalchuk's latest contract is two years shorter than the one rejected by the league and the arbitrator. It pays Kovalchuk $90 million over the first 10 years and $10 million over the final five, including $7 million in the final two years. That deal was changed to address the arbitrator's objection to the first deal that paid Kovalchuk $98.5 million over the first 11, and $3.5 million total over the final six. "....... Read more: http://www.nypost.com/p/sports/devils/it_the_final_day_for_ilya_pact_with_khTLeq9uuDnm018VbZWUjK#ixzz0ySuDqdoO
stevielegs
Fri Sep 3 2010 5:46 am EST
NHL settlement worth the labor.............."" the league is seeking to recalibrate calculations on cap charges for contracts that extend beyond a season in which a player turns 40 and those contracts of five years or longer that extend past a season in which a player turns 35..""............... Read more: http://www.nypost.com/p/sports/more_sports/nhl_settlement_worth_the_labor_sFnVC0ud7olbWpI62SUFVI#ixzz0ySifDmyM.....http://www.nypost.com/p/sports/more_sports/nhl_settlement_worth_the_labor_sFnVC0ud7olbWpI62SUFVI
mf
Thu Sep 2 2010 11:18 pm EST
This league makes no sense. Drury gets 7 mill but a young goalie with a stanley cup ring cant get more than a 2 mill one year deal.
Messier11
Thu Sep 2 2010 7:28 pm EST
RF4L - heh...I got confused. For some reason, I thought Niemi was asking for $5 million...the figure the Hawks walked away from was $2.75 million, which is still more than he took to play in SJ.
tdchi
Thu Sep 2 2010 5:33 pm EST
Russian league: Kovalchuk can play here, where 'it's democratic and free'.............http://www.nypost.com/p/blogs/nhlblog/russian_league_kovalchuk_can_play_eantZdU1dK4trz8AXT4E5L
mf
Thu Sep 2 2010 3:05 pm EST
td: There shouldn't be any bad blood on the Niemi signing - the Hawks walked away from him and signed Turco (didn't they?) instead.
RF4L
Thu Sep 2 2010 1:33 pm EST
WOW...Niemi to Chicago: "SCREW YOU BLACKHAWKS!!"...."The San Jose Sharks have signed the goalie who helped knock them out of the playoffs, agreeing to a one-year, $2 million deal with Antti Niemi." Awesome move for the Sharks though...Niemi, while he isn't a franchise goalie, could very well end up being one. Man...with the HJALLMERSON flap and now Niemi...there's got to be some REAL bad blood between those teams...
tdchi
Thu Sep 2 2010 1:17 pm EST
RF4L: That would work, But Players wouldnt like it, since they wcouldnt get more than 5 years, and teams will try to get one of those yers really cheap to get the cap hit down. But it might work, at least there would be a hard fast rule.
Wildcard
Thu Sep 2 2010 12:30 pm EST
BTW, a simple solution to those long term contracts is to put in a clause in the next CBA stating that regardless of overall worth and/or how the money is dispersed over the life of the contract, the cap hit for the entire term is the average of the 5 highest years of payment.
RF4L
Thu Sep 2 2010 12:19 pm EST
td: As I keep citing, that's all interpretation because almost for sure (cuz I haven't read the document) there are no definitive clauses within the CBA outlawing Kovalchuk's contract or stating teams can demote expensive veterans because they aren't living up to their contracts.
RF4L
Thu Sep 2 2010 12:17 pm EST
Wild: The only way that argument would work is if there's a clause in the CBA that states teams are permitted to farm out any contracted player who's not living up to his contract. Then that clause would have to be matched to measurable stipulations within the player's contract (ie goals, assists, points, +/1, icetime, etc). I can guarantee you neither exist. As with the deals paying players minimal salaries in their mid-40s, there's nothing in the CBA that definitively permits clubs to farm out $6,500,000 veterans. It's all interpretation and as zebop pointed out, Buttman clalms foul with Kovalchuk's contract but calls lending Huet to an European club as cap management (as probably would be his take on the Rangers farming out Redden). That's pure double speak to me, but look at the asshole spouting the words...
RF4L
Thu Sep 2 2010 11:53 am EST
We could send Redden for a battery of physical & psychological tests and put him on the LTIR list ...... Something is obviously wrong, he can't produce any longer, and the organization just cant take the risk of endangering him or another team-mate any further..... They should do the sam for Sather, Torturella, and Butt-head......
mf
Thu Sep 2 2010 10:56 am EST
RF4L - Farming out REDDEN and signing IK to a ridiculous contract are apples and oranges. In the case of Redden, you have a player who, as Wild mentioned, has MASSIVELY regressed. If he is demoted or shipped to Europe, he's OFF the roster...and the only way you can say he's helping the team is by NOT screwing up their defense(addition by subtraction)...in KOVALCHUK'S case, the Devils are signing a player easily worth $8 million, who, if he were signing a one-year contract, would likely demand upward of $10 million. Yet, because the Devils are willing to take him on for so long, he comes in at a cap hit of $6.6 million? So in the first five years of his contract, they get a $4 million reduction from their cap, through which they can improve their team...NOW...you might argue that signing IK to such a long contract means they're also saddled with him for 15 years, five of which he ain't going to be very productive...Of course the minute his productivity drops, the Devils can simply do EXACTLY what the Rangers might do with Redden, provided his NMC has expired. In summation, you get the BEST years of IK at an uber-discount, and then ship him overseas the minute he's of no use...I have no problem with the Devils signing him to a lifetime contract. But to suggest for even a split second that having IK on a roster with a cap hit BELOW $7 million is simply cheating the system. Contracts to ZETTERBERG, HOSSA, SAVARD, LUONGO and PRONGER all flirt with that. But when you look at their respective cap hits, they're not that far out-of-whack. IK's is flat-out ludicrous. If the Devils want him, they should be forced to pair their roster just like any other team...the sad part about ALL of this, is that Buttman should have stepped in LONG before the arbitrator ruling. There were rumors of his BS deal long before it was signed, and the NHL should have told the Devils they would blast the contract in no uncertain terms. Now, if they don't sign him, the NHL could lose one of its best players for a season to the KHL. That's the real travesty in all this.
tdchi
Thu Sep 2 2010 9:41 am EST
RF4L: But with Redden you have another angle...its not like he is doing better each year and they were looking at dumping him. He has REGRESSED since he signed. The Rangers could always say that he is not fulilling his end of the deal...and thats true, he was signed to be a top 4 defender, and if he is playing like a bottom 2 defender than they could drop him to the minors due to to that. They could say, and it would be true, that if he was playing to his past ability, 60+ points and a good +/- , that they wouldne be sending him to the minors, and they could probaly trade him if they neede cap relief. I think the Redden situation is difrent than others. For instance, teh Chicago deal with their goaltender....his numbers didnt drop THAT much, so they I think are being kinda fishy, but Redden went from 38 points to 14 points in 2 seasons...and from 161 shots to 66 in ONE (!!!) season. SO ther is plenty of reason to send him down.
Wildcard
Thu Sep 2 2010 7:42 am EST
zebop: Buttman's an ass - a seasoned greedy-ass lawyer who has lawyer double talk down to a science. When I see his ugly mug on TV and hear his nasally voice, I just wanna pummel him. He's smug and condescending and full of crap - his rejection of a 7th Canadian team via moving a sordid franchise like Phoenix is all about $$ and nothing else - he and his cronies see Canada as a place to expand (and therefore collect expansion fee $$) but won't admit it. I loath the man and love the fact that the NHL is taking heat all over the place for these contracts. Bring it on!
RF4L
Thu Sep 2 2010 7:39 am EST
stevie: When you say 'loophole' I read that as a legal way around a contract. If so, I'll reiterate: From my understanding, there is no loophole - the arbitrator agreed with the NHL's stance that Kovalchuk's rejected deal 'circumvented the spirit of the agreement' as opposed to clearly defying it. That's pure interpretation. I don't think it's unreasonable to extend that interpretation to farming out Wade Redden so you can sign Marc Staal.
RF4L
Thu Sep 2 2010 7:35 am EST
stevie: I'm no cap expert, but from my understanding, there's nothing definitive in the CBA that outlaws the kind of contracts being handed out to the likes of Zettenberg, Hossa, Pronger and now Kovalchuk. It's more interpretation than anything else, which is why an arbitrator had to be brought in. How interesting is it that the arbitrator ruled in favour of the NHL. Where Buttman's team erred was not rejecting the first of these kinds of deals (which I think was Zetterberg's). Once a precedent is set it then gets duplicated, which all of those subsequent deals have done - each one, however, seemed to push the envelope further and further. Kovalchuk's deal IMO ripped that envelop right apart. Complicating matters even further is the fact that one such deal belongs to a player who contributed to a Stanley Cup winning team. If the NHL deems Hossa's contract invalid, doesn't that present the argument that Chicago's victory is also invalid? What a mess and it sure looks good at that smug Canadian hating Buttman.
RF4L
Thu Sep 2 2010 7:33 am EST
Z the 10 and 15 year front loaded are taking advantage of a loophole. They should declare drury, redden, and rozis as unacceptable too, and void them ;-)
stevielegs
Thu Sep 2 2010 7:30 am EST
Interesting, RF4L, someone asked that specifically to Bettman at the hockey summit, I think it was regarding the Blackhawks ditching the former Canadiens goalie (forgot his name) in a Swiss league, or some such thing, and Bettman said, "It's called cap management." So one is called circumvention, the other is management. Whatever sutis their needs.
Zebop
Thu Sep 2 2010 7:23 am EST
RF4L they are all legal ways to stay under the cap, until they are declared not legal, but retroactive is a bad joke. The nhl signed off on all the previous contracts. Just get rid of the strict cap, use baseball's version. The poor teams will be happy to take dolan's free money, that sather knows how to waste with bad results.
stevielegs
Thu Sep 2 2010 7:18 am EST
way to go buttman, make new rules as you go little dick-tator........glad you picked the debbies to poop on, or did you get threatened by lemon lou that he would sue........maybe a class action lawsuit including all affected fans?.........fire the savior of the nhl poor crying teams......ask mario........and screw the debbies.........and kovaltine...........
stevielegs
Thu Sep 2 2010 7:14 am EST
Here's something to ponder: If contracts like Kovalchuk's circumvents the spirit of the CBA (and I think it does), doesn't farming out a $6,500,000 contract do the same?
RF4L
Thu Sep 2 2010 6:43 am EST
Bob, I said here after the arbitrator's ruling that the league will take full advantage of it, and that investigating those other deals wasn't just for show. Bettman and Co. are ruthless, and as long as the NHLPA is w/o leadership, the league will keep hammering away looking to break them. ... in no way should the players agree to these latest givebacks. It would be suicidal on their part. Brooks has the story: http://www.nypost.com/p/sports/devils/nhl_will_play_hardball_over_ilya_yS6vN4hMKN88KdA5LaSpDN
Zebop
Thu Sep 2 2010 6:42 am EST
Bob: This is a pisser......Gary Bonapart Bettman should be hired to deal with the teachers union............ NHL will play hardball over Ilya ... & others Read more: http://www.nypost.com/p/sports/devils/nhl_will_play_hardball_over_ilya_yS6vN4hMKN88KdA5LaSpDN#ixzz0yN5wbCFw
mf
Thu Sep 2 2010 12:28 am EST
What a league, huh? Allows contracts designed to circumvent the cap for years, and now, after the fact they are threatening to de-certify contracts? The latest Kovy contract is another circumvention attempt, but instead of refusing it the offer the players a "we'll approve this one if" ultimatum? Who does business like this? The NHL offices are filled with clowns.
Bob
Wed Sep 1 2010 8:56 pm EST
td: Stop bogarting that bong!!!
RF4L
Wed Sep 1 2010 8:17 pm EST
tdchi.....nevermind ;-)
stevielegs
Wed Sep 1 2010 5:59 pm EST
BTW...Man would I kill to have Marc, Eric and Jordan on the same team...Come on, MSG...MAKE IT HAPPEN ;)
tdchi
Wed Sep 1 2010 5:58 pm EST
Here's some food for thought...I don't necessarily believe the STAAL brothers want to play on the same team, but some here have said they've mentioned it in the past...I can't vouch for that...BUT...JARED STAAL is with his big bro in Carolina right now, and ERIC STAAL ain't going anywhere for the next five season...JORDAN STAAL, on the other hand, will be a UFA in three seasons...REPORTEDLY...MARC STAAL is looking for a three-year contract...maybe two...Perhaps the quartet is hoping to join ranks in the south come the 2013-2014 season...that would happen to coincide with Eric Staal's prime...and just about the peak of the Marc and Jordan's careers as well...Lord knows what Jared will do next season...BUT...he's under a three year contract right now and will either start the year in Charlotte or make the big club...Perhaps(and I'm just saying 'perhaps') this is the hangup of both Sather and Staal, since they both know he'll likely part ways in three years regardless.
tdchi
Wed Sep 1 2010 4:26 pm EST
RF4L, i honestly don't think Stall signing is all about money and i know it based on all reading i have done on this matter. Issue with Stall is not the $, it's the length of the contract. What Stall wants is a 4 year contract so he can become UFA once contract is finished. What Sather offered was a 3 year deal, which will force Stall to sign another contract with rangers before he becomes UFA. By NHL rules, player can become UFA after completing 7 years of service. Stall has 3 under his belt.
andrei
Wed Sep 1 2010 2:52 pm EST
RF4L, good points on Parise ... that's why I said "probably" :) ... bottom line is we have no idea what Sather's offered of what Orr has counteroffered. But, yeah, I agree with the general assessment that Sather is probably trying to get him to sign "his" deal as opposed to the one Staal wants. And, like many have speculated, a deal could already be in place, pending training camp moves. But it also might not be all Sather's doing -- Orr is not one to cave. He might be the one who's being unreasonable.
Zebop
Wed Sep 1 2010 2:48 pm EST
RF4L: I agree..LL wouldnt be cheap...but that might not be the sticking point here. Staal may not want to go more than 3-4 years no matter what the price...well almost. I mean if its outlandish type $$$ im sure he would sign, but if he feels that he can be near Norris caliber in 3 years, than he will want alot more $$ than they will offer now, and he probably knows he cant ask for that type of money now, so he only wants 3 years or whatever, that way he can be honest with the team about what he thinks he is worth now, and the team of course wants him longer term...I tinhk its more about that, trhey may be offering him 4 now and 5 later, but if he thinks he may be worth 6 later, well, thats a sticking point. Thats why I think we will see him sign for 2 years or 3 years at 4.5 per right before camp.
Wildcard
Wed Sep 1 2010 2:42 pm EST
stevie – THE “Christopher Higgins” is signed with the Florida Panthers...the “Chris Higgins” referred to on Carp's site is the one who played in Boston College...then with 7 games on the Syracuse Crunch...he's from Massachusetts, while the ex-Rangers is from my old stomping ground in Huntington(LI).
tdchi
Wed Sep 1 2010 2:36 pm EST
zebop: Your take on LL being cheap with Staal if Staal was a Devil isn't based on anything but perception. In actuality he, hands out significant deals when he deems the player worthy. A good comparison is Zach Parise's current contractor. In 2007, LL signed the 23 year old Parise after 2 years in the league to a 4 year $12,500,000 contract. There are a couple of significant considerations: 1) Bigger contracts are being handed out now to burgeoning stars (which Parise was - he was coming off a 31 goal sophomore seasno) compared to 3 summers ago. 2) Parise took less money because it was a 4 year deal that will end with him being an UFA. Bottom line is LL could have lowballed Parise because of the no leverage factor but he didn't. Yes he got Parise for what now appears to be a decent contract, but that's the key: Both sides gave in and that's what needs to occur with Staal and Sather.
RF4L
Wed Sep 1 2010 2:17 pm EST
for those who haven't heard, Higgins is headed to Italy.....ciao........take gino sather and tortorlini with you.........
stevielegs
Wed Sep 1 2010 2:13 pm EST
So to complete my thoughts here, the Rangers should be offering Staal, if they are discussing a 2 or 3 year contract, something in the neighbourhood of $3,000,000 to $4,000,000. Longer term should be more - probably $4,000,000 to $5,000,000. Anything less for either term is treating Staal with contempt IMO and risking alienating him. But, hey, he's not a mercenary - he's home grown so why not treat him like dirt!
RF4L
Wed Sep 1 2010 1:47 pm EST
Id take Bobby Ryan the player over Marc Staal the player. I mean, I like both a lot. But we need the spice Ryan have. BUT, one FACTOR you can't look past in a discussion like this is salary-EXPECTATION. Marc Staal won't make 6m, not in the coming 5-6 years at least. A 65-70 pts season by Ryan and he instantly becomes a very EXPENSIVE player after his next contract expires. Id make the headsup trade only if Ryan could be signed to like 4m-5m range for like 5-6 years.
Ola
Wed Sep 1 2010 1:31 pm EST
zebop/E/Hospo: Let's look at other d-man within Staal's age/talent range and their contract situation: Brent Seabrook has a year left on his current deal that pays him $3,500,000 - he'll be a RFA next summer and surely to get a significant raise. Niklas Hjalmarsson this summer signed a 4 year $14,000,000 contract and I know who I'd want with Staal vs him. Mike Green is making $5,200,000 (for 2 more years) and Jeff Schultz is making $2,700,000 for the next 4 years. Brayden Coburn is making $3,200,000 for the next 2 years. Staal falls somewhere in between the likes of Green and say Coburn. All of these guys were signed as RFA...
RF4L
Wed Sep 1 2010 1:09 pm EST
On Staal, I am SURE each side has an offer "on the table" and one side will bite at the last moment...or hell, they could even have a deal they are both OK with to get Staal playing while tehy work on a longer deal but are just trying to work out something they both like and just sign one deal now. There is time left, not a ton, but some.
Wildcard
Wed Sep 1 2010 12:30 pm EST
RF4L, but who says the other 29 GMs wouldn't deal with Staal in the same way. He has no leverage. Lou Lams would probably be doing the same thing, and I'm sure you think he's one of the better GMs out there. .... And Staal may look at Redden and Rozy and think he's underpaid, but you're comparing apples to oranges (or sour grapes in Redden's case) when it comes to negotiating power. Unrestricted vs restricted. Big dif, as I know you know.
Zebop
Wed Sep 1 2010 12:14 pm EST
Hospo: re Dubi being as good (or not as good specifically) as Staal: I concur E didn't say that - my point was Sather shouldn't be dealing with Staal in the same manner because they are 2 very different players in terms of what they mean to the success (or in this case, non-success) of the club. And not for a second do I disagree that Sather may very well be dealing with Staal in the same manner as he did with Dubi - that's how stupid I think the man is. If so, I hope Staal, when he finally accepts the deal, then immediately quietly asks for a trade. Imagine looking at the hoRRor twins collective $11,500,000 salary hit and their pathetic efforts on the ice while you collect you (relatively) paltry salary and play more minutes more games and are decidely more effective. Yes seniority counts, but common sense should also come into play here. Ask for a trade so you can go play for a club not run by a bunch of buffoons (which is virtually 29 other places).
RF4L
Wed Sep 1 2010 12:08 pm EST
schneidw: I've been advocating the removal of the C from Dreary's jersey since early last season. He's a horrible choice IMO because of his dreary demeanor on the ice and in interviews and his inability to deliver results on the ice. Another horrendous Sather decision and yet another reason not to expect the Rangers to do much this year.
RF4L
Wed Sep 1 2010 12:08 pm EST
RF4L - I was reading the back and forth between you and the diatribic E..Maybe I missed it, bit I didn;t see where he said Dubi was as good as Staal, just that Sather would deal with Staal in a similar fashion..And E is probably right..That's how that bozo Sather works.....To me. Staal is clerly the better and more consistent and more valuable player which should get him better treqatment, but when Sather has the hammer on younger players, he uses it....IMore then likely Staal will cave but if he doesn't Sather is going to find out how truly pathetic the defense and the team is..But why let that get in the way....I also agree with E though, that I would deal Staal for Ryan, and not look back--Two very good young players, but you gotta go with the proven goal scorer over the steady mostly defensive D-man
Hospo
Wed Sep 1 2010 12:05 pm EST
DRURY- I say strip Drury of the "C".. another example of his terrible leadership... voluntary workouts are being held... Drury, the local boy and captain of the team is no where to be found.. guess he is too busy counting his $$$ up in Greenwhich to break a sweat with the lowly paid players trying to make the team (ignorinig Redden of course)
schneidw
Wed Sep 1 2010 10:55 am EST
Oh, there's 4th reason: Without a doubt, Staal is a far better player than Dubinsky - always has been and always will be. The only thing Dubinsky appears to have over Staal is leadership ability, but the word appears is key here; we aren't privvy to what goes on in RangerLand from a team chemistry/camardirie perspective - clearly Dubi is noisier than Staal but that doesn't necessarily mean he's a better leader and/or looked at in different light.
RF4L
Wed Sep 1 2010 10:52 am EST
E: Again we disagree. What Staal has over Dubi is the following: 1) He's the best Ranger d-man (by far) - Dubi could hardly make a claim even this year of being the Rangers best forward. 2) Without Staal in the lineup the defense goes from average (and that's being VERY generous) to downright pathetic. 3) Staal is an iron man - he's missed all of 2 games in his entire NHL career (and none in the past 2 years). I concur that in theory, Sather holds the cards, but playing hardball and giving Staal a puny contract offer (and refusing to budge from that) risks alienating the team's best defenseman, a burgeoning star player and someone the organization can build around. All stuff both Sather and Staal's agent both surely know. Don't nickel and dime this kid - doing so could very well result in the beginning of the end of his Ranger career.
RF4L
Wed Sep 1 2010 10:40 am EST
Staal gas the negotiating power of zilch. He will take a deal like Dubinsky has. Life goes on...
E
Wed Sep 1 2010 10:34 am EST
http://tweetphoto.com/42670245
puckyou
Wed Sep 1 2010 10:32 am EST
Redden---ok listen,,,,,,take the $$$$ out of the equation,,can you say that Redden is our WORST D-MAN? Nope,,,,,,,He is in camp early will be in good shape and will be in the line up opening nite,,,,,Stahl wont be........
thedugster
Wed Sep 1 2010 10:08 am EST
wild: If that's all that's holding things up, sign Staal for 3 years and then give him the bigday if he deserves it when it comes due. Preferably resign him in year 3 of the deal to a fat longer term deal like so many other teams are doing with their star players. If Staal is gonna be a norris candidate one day, then that surely will be far more apparent in 2 to 3 years. Furthermore, he's only 22, meaning he'll just be entering his prime when the next contract is signed. You know it could even be more complex: Maybe Sather is trying to get him to sign something like a 10 year $50,000,000 to $60,000,000 deal that pays him $4,000,000 in years 1 and 2 and then jumps up to higher amounts as the years progress. There is risk for both sides on a contract like that, but I'd argue the bigger risk is on the Rangers - if Staal settles into nothing more than what we've seen, he'll be overpaid at $6,000,000. But if he becomes a norris candidate he isn't...
RF4L
Wed Sep 1 2010 9:20 am EST
On STAAL - I think the years ARE part of the hangup, but I also think the contract logjam plays into it...in other words, Staal's probably willing to lock in for the next four or five years IF he gets the right payout(I suspect $5 million)...or he'll take a lower cap hit --around what the Rangers are probably offering him --if he can hit the UFA market in two or three years...Ultimately, I think it will come down to who shows up in camp and how the Rangers decide to arrange their financing, with the big cog being REDDEN...On an aside, my most IDEAL situation would be if the Reds shows up to camp a mean, lean, fighting machine and gets back to the point he was at in 2006, when he was scoring almost a point per game. That would force the Rangers to jettison WHITE and EMINGER...maybe CHRISTENSEN too...And then chose between AVERY or MZA to find the money for Staal's contract, with the change leftover being allocated to guys like SAUER, BYERS, WEISE and STEPAN, all of whom make $800,000 or less at the NHL level...Of course, that would mean my boy McDONAGH spends the season in Hartford...and besides... I don't have ANY faith that Redden will be able to get his performance to a level where he'd deserve what he's getting paid, and even if he does during training camp, the effort won't last down the long haul...in other words...SATHER: GET ON THE HORN TO SWITZERLAND. Redden, I hope you like leiderhosen and Ricola commercials. Maybe he can play along side Horse Meat over there...schneidw - White's position on the roster is a fluid one. I don't think the team would have ANY reservations about sending him to Hartford if he doesn't pan out during training camp. ALSO...his cap hit is low enough that a team looking for a mid-level forward would probably nab him on a waiver claim. I don't think the Thrashers waived him...Also, his buyout number ain't too high...And on that trade, I was just musing...and someone here was mentioning Staal wanted to play with one or more of his brothers...I do like the kid SUTTER though, even if his old man is a schmuck former Islander...He'd easily be the Rangers' top center...but like I said...I'd be astounded if Staal was traded period. But you and RF4L are right: He'd probably bring in a much better bounty.
tdchi
Wed Sep 1 2010 8:42 am EST
RF4L: The problem is that Sather wants Staal LONG TERM. Staal and his agent want 2 or 3 years, I cant remember wich, so that this contract ends his first year of UFA eligability. I imagine Sather wants to get him long term at a decent cap hit, but that will be hard to do if you give him teh money he will most likely deserve in 2 or 3 years. I dont blame Staal for wanting teat leverage in a few years, and I dont blame Sather for trying to get Staal locked up long term. That is why I think that Sather will be the one to fold a bit....maybe Staal looses 1 year of UFA, but I imagine Sather, or whoever is the GM at that time, will try to get an extention before he hits the market....maybe a full season ahead of time.
Wildcard
Wed Sep 1 2010 8:39 am EST
td: Yeah, teh bonuses will count, but due to the type of contract, or player age, or something like that, they can be pushed to next season if the Rangers are at the cap this season....not a great thing, but HOPEFULY the kids develope this year more and there can be 3-5 mill less in vet $$ against the cap, and it wont really matter.
Wildcard
Wed Sep 1 2010 7:13 am EST
E: We can agree to disagree - no way is it a no brainer IMO. The Rangers already have a high scorer winger. They have no 1st line center and with Staal gone, nobody truly capable of playing on the first d pairing (who really has the potential to be the team's number 1 d-man). I'd think long and hard about making that deal...
RF4L
Wed Sep 1 2010 6:37 am EST
could be kovalfkd........http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=332232
stevielegs
Tue Aug 31 2010 9:19 pm EST
RF4l: no one is untouchable. If Staal were traded for Ryan, I'd pack Staal personally. 22-year old scoring 35 goals already? No brainer.
E
Tue Aug 31 2010 9:18 pm EST
Just read todays posts and 2 things to chime in on....1) I think we're stuck with Redden unless a trade presents itself where we can ship him out or send him down....I see us trading Rozi before that happening, as Rozi has some trade value and creates the opening to carry Staals salary. Trading Rozi is a lot easier to justify than eating Reddens salary...... The balance of salary that we may be over the cap is easily handled.......2) if we have such great prospects, so many of them, and since we have the inside scoop on their skill-set, why is it we always get nothing in return for them? Sather never unloads them when there is an appearance that they may have some value when he knows damn well they will never see the ice here in NY? Over & over the years we have gotten nothing in return for these kids/prospects. What a friggin waste........
mf
Tue Aug 31 2010 5:47 pm EST
Hospo - Sather was only getting about 75 points out of a 90 million dollar team so what makes you think he can do better with a $59 million team! ;-) I believe now it was more Jagr and his will to win than Renney's coaching or Sather's luck-of-the-draw teams for the first 2-3 post-lockout years. You think we would have been sniffing at the division title without him? .... You say that either way we will suck this year. (because of inexperienced kids or crappy vets). Well then I would rather suck watching inexperienced kids play and learn than see overpaid crappy vets dog it all year. JMO but I guess we will just have to agree to disagree on our fan philosophies. I too just want to see the best possible roster, but in reality there is too much politics and money involved. If a vet outplays a kid then he should make the team, but if the kids out play the vets they should NOT also have to outperform unmovable contracts to crack the roster. That is the type of damaging environment that I have seen for decades with this org. and don't see anything changing anytime soon. It makes being a Rangers fan very hard. It is not like we are rooting for a team which doesn't have the money or resources to compete with the big boys. The Garden IS the big boys. That makes all this failure hard to swallow and makes me post on the Wall for my sanity's sake!!
NYStranger
Tue Aug 31 2010 5:26 pm EST
In case anyone was wondering Tyutin makes less money than Girardi.
Danylo Halytskyj
Tue Aug 31 2010 4:51 pm EST
RF4L--There are other ways to get below the cap number besides waiving Redden. As we all have noticed.......there are too many forwards on the roster. A few of them will end up in Hartford. More of them if the kids (Stepan, Grachev, Weise) end up staying. They will end up carrying 19 or 20 forwards tops. Last year, they carried only 6 defensemen. HOSPO---right on. Some bang for the buck!
Bob
Tue Aug 31 2010 4:40 pm EST
CAP- Waive REDDEN and find a way to trade DRURY (NMC be damned( and teh RANGERS are actually in great shape cap wise IMHO... alot of solid young players are locked up long term... and then there will be cap space to find a #1 center... PATIENCE!!
schneidw
Tue Aug 31 2010 4:37 pm EST
TDICHI- Just because WHITE is listed on the roster now doesnt mean he can't be waived and his cap hit negated.. right? I suspect the NYRs will see if he has anything left since he had some past success with Gaborik.,.. I seriously think WHITE, REDDEN and AVERY could all be waived this year... I really think SATHER plans to send a message to this team... I hope I am correct with this hunch...
schneidw
Tue Aug 31 2010 4:36 pm EST
GABORIK- I HIGHLY DOUBT there is any truth to the rumour of teh NYRs offering up Gaborik to the Kings... first off, why would LA give up young talent for Gaborik when they could have signed Kovalchuk... makes no sense to me...
schneidw
Tue Aug 31 2010 4:33 pm EST
RF4L- you beat me to the punch, I also saw a previous post (we will leave unnamed for sake of avoiding embarresment) that postulated returns on trading STAAL.... Absolutely ludicrous...
schneidw
Tue Aug 31 2010 4:00 pm EST
RF4L - Capgeek.com HAS White on the roster. The $84,000 figure, I believe, is WITHOUT bonuses though, which tacks another $2 million in change onto that figure...That can be a problem in and of itself, considering what the Bruins and Blackhawks are facing now, which is a nasty cap penalty...Boston is more than $3 million over their cap. I was looking at the most OBVIOUS guy to demote(THOMAS), and guess what...they CAN'T trade OR demote him...He almost makes REDDEN'S contract look good!! Still, I wish someone in the Ranger organization could work Marc SAVARD back into the fold...maybe trade Wiese and a second-rounder for him...
tdchi
Tue Aug 31 2010 3:55 pm EST
And I gotta say to those advocating the trading of Staal (if there are any): That would be a HUGE mistake IMO - finally a true homegrown skater with star potential, drafted and developed by the organization. And Staal has that potential - some of the hockey rags are touting Staal as a possible future Norris trophy candidate and I agree that potential is there. I'm not suggesting this year, but in a few years it could happen. For sure, he's a top 2 d-man with the possibility of becoming a clear number 1 man and name me the last team to win a cup without such a player manning the backline. These guys are as important, IMO, as a number 1 goalie and a go-to offensive forward. The Rangers hopefully are looking to lock up Staal to a long term contract...
RF4L
Tue Aug 31 2010 3:48 pm EST
Hospo: Yep, it's a mess. Look at those figures and I say 1/2 of those guys should be jettisoned.
RF4L
Tue Aug 31 2010 3:44 pm EST
wild: Yeah, but he has Brashear on the payroll and not White - interchange their salaries and the Rangers hole is bumped 700K...
RF4L
Tue Aug 31 2010 3:13 pm EST
RF4L: I am looking at cap geek right now...it shows 23 players, a cap payrol of 61 mil and "change, with 2 mill+ being bonuses, leaving teh Rangers 84K in teh hole.
Wildcard
Tue Aug 31 2010 3:11 pm EST
RF4L- Wow, gotta hand it to Sather..What bang for the buck he gets for 60 million! And I'm not talking Boogaard, Brasher and Prust!..It's criminal what he (and Torts) has done to this organization
Hospo
Tue Aug 31 2010 3:08 pm EST
RF4L: The cap for next season will be 59,400,000, the Rangers are over that right now according to capgeek.com by 84,167, thats with 15 forwards and 6 D with out Staal. However, they can go 10% over, so like 65 mil an "change", so they can fit Staal "under" the cap...but would need to shed anything over 59,400,000 by I THINK october 1st, or something like that. So even though they are over teh cap, they are under it as well :)
Wildcard
Tue Aug 31 2010 3:05 pm EST
For what it's worth, capgeek has the Rangers over $700,000 in the hole currently and that's without Kennedy being factored in. It's all follows: Gabbie @ 7.5M, Dreary at 7M, Frolov at 3M, Cally at 2.3M, Prospal at 2.1, Avery at 1.9M, Dubi at 1.8M, MDZ at 1.7M, Boogaard at 1.6M, Brashear at 1.4M, Christensen at .9M, AA at .8M, Prust at .8M, Boyle at .5, Redden at 6.5M (LOLOLOL - sorry), Rozey at 5.0M, Girardi at 3.3M, Gilry at 1.7M, Eminger at 1.1M and MDZ at 1M, Biron at .9M and the King at 6.9M for a total of $59,615,000 with a cap hit of $60,196,667, putting them nearly 800,000 over. Now add Kennedy at $550,000 and the difference of over $900,000 via adding White and subtracting Brashear and now the Rangers are over the cap by +$2,000,000. This is without Staal...
RF4L
Tue Aug 31 2010 3:03 pm EST
TDCHI - Some decent and astute rationalizations...I totaly agree that they have to ice the BEST TEAM POSSIBLE for this year.......I'm glad you are not of the mind of "just play the kids" and willing to watch a bad team just as long as there are home grown youngsters trying hard..That means nothing...Now, if they play hard and play well, then you got something...We'll see....Unfortuantely, the 2010-11 Rangers are pretty much screwed either way becasue the CURRENT NHL ability of both those options seems pretty dismal..
Hospo
Tue Aug 31 2010 2:55 pm EST
RF4L - I agree that Redden will stay because of his contract, becasue he will more then likely play well in pre-season, and becasue there is nobody else...Same will happen with White and Christensen..
Hospo
Tue Aug 31 2010 2:10 pm EST
Bob: Can you or anyone else explain definitively the Rangers current cap situation? I am confused cuz on 1 hand I read that even without Staal resigned, they are over the cap (meaning once he's back in the fold, something has to give and that something will likely equal around $6,000,000). On the other hand, I read that the club is under the cap by $4,000,000 to $5,000,000 (meaning they can absorb Staal's new wage). If the former is true, all signs point to Redden being demoted (or perhaps Rozey being traded for a bag of pucks) but if the latter is accurate, I agree with you and dugster 100% - Redden's going nowhere. In other words, whether Redden stays or gets demoted is wholly dependent on the cap situation and has very little to do with how he plays in the pre-season.
RF4L
Tue Aug 31 2010 2:06 pm EST
Have to agree with the Dugster...................untilI see Redden is actually waived and demoted, I don't believe it will happen. Whether fear of the wrath of Dolan, or simply Slats' ego and arrogance, I bet redden starts the season with the big club.
Bob
Tue Aug 31 2010 1:14 pm EST
td: I sure hope you're right. BTW, Byers is starting his 5th professional season and Sauer his 4th - it's time both are given a legitimate chance to make the big club. That is, of course, if they have the ability and let's not forget that both are high picks (2nd rounders) selected by Sather and team, so chances are they are both career minor leaguers it's very possible neither will ever make the NHL...
RF4L
Tue Aug 31 2010 12:51 pm EST
Man...you guys sometimes want to have your cake and eat it too...KEN – I'm all for giving NHL spots to STEPAN and GRACHEV and McDONAGH...but the reality is, are they ready to play at that level? If you ask some poster around (or rather many), they're not...and they should be relegated to Hartford for at least a year, and maybe two...This is EXACTLY what Detroit does with most of their prospects. Two years in the minors...then a placement on usually third or fourth line for a season or two...and then a role in the bigtime...Now...if the Rangers did that, there would be people here posting about how lame 'the kids' are and that we only have 'third and fourth line prospects.' Conversely, guys that are “rushed” into the league are ragged on for being inconsistent and deficient(Del Zotto for instance)...Here's the reality, IMO: The Rangers need to ice the best team they can in October...Right now, there are about 12 spots that are spoken for: Callahan, Dubinsky, Prospal, Gaborik, Frolov, Drury, Boogaard, Girardi, MDZ, Staal, Lundqvist, and Biron...I also think its safe to say Avery, Rozsival, Anisimov and Prust are going to be on the big club...That's 16 out of 22 spots...Six are up for grabs by whoever competes the hardest for them. The only 'big' contract among those competing is REDDEN...he's the only contact that I CAN'T see being buried in Hartford(though I can imagine him getting loaned to Europe)...The rest of the players are low-risk, high-reward types that Sather loves to bring into the fold....On WHITE...Just look at what we traded for him...a career minor leaguer and a guy who was run out of NY...I'm sure he's not too high on the organization's list...and guess what? If STEPAN beats him out of a spot, he's assigned to Hartford and plays the season out there until he's recalled...On KENNEDY – Like I said before...”MEH”...but again...this is a kid(he JUST turned 24), who was a longshot to make the NHL back in college, but proved to be a very defensively capable forward...then he started showing up on the score sheet...then he lit it up in the AHL...then he scored nearly 30 points in his rookie season...on CHRISTENSEN – I will be amazed if he's still with the club by next spring...on BOYLE – Who cares? The guy makes NOTHING...On EMINGER – The only way I see him on the team is as a seventh defender IF(and that's a big 'if') REDDEN is dispatched...The bottom line is, these are spots that could easily be given to a host of different players...MDZ and McDonagh first and foremost; Stepan, Wiese and Byers as a long shot...Even Valentenko(who is supposed to be a nasty stay-at-home defender) and Sauer have a chance to prove that they're better. And if they're not? Guess what: They can stay down in Hartford until they are.
tdchi
Tue Aug 31 2010 12:46 pm EST
Bad news Wade Redden is not going down,,he stays,,,,,Stahl might be gone.....
thedugster
Tue Aug 31 2010 11:58 am EST
Ken: Yeah White isnt going to solve anything...but he got rid of Brash and his cap hit...White can be waived. As for Kennedy, I will never be upset with Sather signing a 24 year old kid, who did well in his only NHL action. If he ends up better than one of the Rangers 24 eyar old they already had, who cares, he is still a 24 year old kid who did well. Kennedy is in a "class" by himself when it comes to moves. He said multiple teams talked to him about a contract, I believe it...he is only 24, and not a bad player. Do the Rangers need him? NO, but again, he is only 24. I would hope that Sather would take as many of these kids off the market as possible...they are a good risk at 500-600K
Wildcard
Tue Aug 31 2010 11:54 am EST
RF4L.......agree 100%. This is classic typical NYR/Sather BS. They publicly proclaim patience, youth movement, long term.....blah, blah, blah......Their actions say..."we don't trust that the kids will be good enough to keep us in the mix for the 8th PO spot this year and that is always priority #1 no matter the cost." Same old crap.....problem for Sather is that it's getting harder to claim that 8th spot because he's up against the cap now while other competing teams have schooled him in the art of GMing and are pulling away. These White and Kennedy moves smell of pure desperation.................You know, not only do I agree that you need to leave a spot or two open for your kids but I'll take it a step further. If you BELIEVE in your kids, you give them a kick into that spot. Especially forwards. You either have the talent or you don't. If they are 20+ year olds and have the talent, they should be pushed into it a bit, then go down and right back up as necessary, but never banished to the minors for a whole season while a POS like White plays.....There's zero future in Todd White. It's a waste of time and $$$. Invest in AA and Stepan and force feed them a bit. Let White come up to spell them as needed, not the other way around..........Sather does everything ass backwards, all in his great valiant pursuit of that 1st round appearance.....More pathetic by the day...........and most likely he doesn't believe in the kids......That's the message he sent with the Kennedy move....that yet again, a castoff from another organization has to be better than any crap we draft....Pathetic.
Ken
Tue Aug 31 2010 11:23 am EST
RF4L: I might be wrong, but I think that untill camp starts teams cant waive players from the roster for cap reduction. If they were on the cap for a certain amonut of time last season they count during the offseason. Thats what I understand it to be at least. So with that in mind. Staal/his agent, may have already agreed in principle on a new deal, but are waiting untill camp starts so players can be waived...I kind of doubt thats the case, but it could be why Sather hasnt agreed to Staals/agents offer to sather....he knows he would have zero room left under teh offseason cap, and he may have already decided to waive Redden, or he could be trying to make a trade or two first, than sign Staal. In any case, I think Staal doesnt miss any camp, and if he does it will only be a day or two. I dont see him holding out a long time, especially if the rumors are true that it isnt $$ that problem, but the number of years, so he may "fold" on the number of years to get to camp.
Wildcard
Tue Aug 31 2010 10:36 am EST
NYStranger: Agreed 100% - like I posted to Hospo yesterday, it's about creating a positive environment for youth and part of includes ensuring there at least 1 or 2 roster spots open. To take it a step further, it's about a culture of success - of nuturing the youth and easing them into the lineup when they're ready. It certainly isn't an exact science so of course you take a chance when you leave a roster spot or 2 open going into camp, but it's also about the ability to read/judge/assess your young talent and recognize when they are ready to be promoted. Detriot might be the best example of this - there's nothing wrong with having a young player stay in the minors for an extended period of time provided you regularly promote such players. If folks don't think young players don't recognize this, they are fooling themselves. Of course, all of this is predicated on the organization's ability to draft and develop players - if a team is lousy at that, then it has no choice but to pursue UFAs and in today's competitive environment it seems most of those are 3rd and 4th line and bottom 1/2 d-men. Every UFA acquisition by the Rangers this off-season, save for Frolok (who had a 3rd/4th line season statistically last year) were players of that ilk. I just hope that if someone like Weise outplays someone like Kennedy in camp, he makes the team.
RF4L
Tue Aug 31 2010 10:15 am EST
when I say ' a bunch of Rissmillers' I mean mediocre 3rd/4th line talent who are outsiders that really don't have a spot or fit in with the supposed organizational direction - the direction stated or perceived for that matter. It is great to have competition in camp but when our own guys know they have very little chance to get a call up during the season because of veteran logjam and cap issues they end up walking the first chance they get. Potter, Immonen, that other d-man last year that played better than R&R when he played for NY. I don't even like thinking of it because it makes me sick. It is not that they were the next great player or anything like that but it reflects on the general attitude that these kids in the minors must feel. Very little hope of getting a real chance because of complete dogs like Redden.
NYStranger
Tue Aug 31 2010 9:52 am EST
Opps...should have included Kennedy in that list of 1st and 2nd line center hopefuls. From where I sit in terms of skill Stepan ranks first, followed by AA, but it's very likely the former starts his pro career in Hartford while the latter needs to show a lot more in camp than he did all last season to land one of those spots. That said, I suspect AA will be given every opportunity to land the number 2 center spot with the number 1 going to one of the veterans (White is likely the most logical choice, given his success with Kovalchuk as little as 2 seasons ago).
RF4L
Tue Aug 31 2010 9:45 am EST
BTW, I remain unclear on the latter, but Andrew Gross stated yesterday that with the acquisition of Kennedy even without Staal resigned the Rangers are over the cap...if so that could explain why Staal isn't signed, although if the plan is to waive Redden why can't they do it now? Or does the camp have to open before you can officially assign a player to the minors?
RF4L
Tue Aug 31 2010 9:43 am EST
I agree it's possible (and sure hope it becomes reality) that the Rangers have signed all these extra forwards with the notion that the best players will make the opening night roster and everyone else is farmed out, regardless of age and salary (save for Dreary, of course, who's got that wonderful NMC). I maintain, however, that Sather is indeed throwing shit at the wall in hopes of something sticking, be it someone like Kennedy or White or Stepan. This isn't necessarily a bad thing provided it's done on purpose AND management is willing to farm out a higher priced veteran if a younger player proves his worth. This MO is of course, a short term strategy born out of a failure to execute (or worse - and this applies to Sather IMO - not even have) a longer range plan. Let's face it: The biggest organizational hole is skilled centers - the Rangers have but 2 (AA and Stepan) and neither have yet to show they're capable of NHL duty yet. I keep hearing/reading about the Rangers trading to fill that hole, but how can that be accomplished? There aren't any available and even if there was, the Rangers have no cap room to accommodate one. Sather, IMO, is desperately hoping one of these guys (White, Prospal, Christensen, Stepan or AA) miraculously steps up and fills at least 1 of the 2 first 2 line center spots. Hence the signing of all these guys...
RF4L
Tue Aug 31 2010 9:42 am EST
I dont understand something. While I know that Kennedy isnt going to solve anything. I dont get compairing him to a signing like Rissmiller, or any other older vet who never showed anything at any level. This is a 24 year old kid, who COULD end up being a very good 3rd/4th line player...we have a bunch of those you say? Well good, that emans the Rnagers keep the best of them and trade the rest for picks, that flip the picks in packages for better picks. I dont think you can have too many under 25 guys who are NHL capable.
Wildcard
Tue Aug 31 2010 8:58 am EST
RF.., 10/4 on the Gabby rumor. Very curious, as we all are, with Camp coming what the REAL deal is with all these spare parts being picked up? I do have a BAD feeling though that Redden will indeed be in a Ranger uni opening nite!
pa.rangersfan
Tue Aug 31 2010 8:23 am EST
Stevie - I will gladly wear an "I love Crosby" shirt all season long(and whenever I'm in the Garden) if STAAL walks from the Rangers for nothing. It will NEVER happen. NEVER. Worst case scenario is that he's packaged for a top-line center, which at this point, might be the best thing for the Rangers even though I really wouldn't like to see Staal moved...say maybe to Carolina for Brandon SUTTER and BABCHUK?...even there...I'd wager a hefty amount that Staal is in blue come October.
tdchi
Tue Aug 31 2010 8:02 am EST
Well...at least the NHLPA seems to think the Rangers have a couple of blockbuster prospects...MZA and McDonagh both listed for the photo shoot and among 23 of the league's top rookies....I will note that when Upperdeck did this last year, they listed SANGUINETTI as one of the top rookies...Still, these are some good names to be listed with...this from Carp: "Well, according to the NHLPA, the Rangers have two of the top rookie prospects in the league. Sounds like a guess, though" - Taylor Hall (EDM), Tyler Seguin (BOS), Nazem Kadri (TOR), Jordan Eberle (EDM), Kyle Beach (CHI), Jonathon Blum (NSH), Joe Colborne (BOS), Scott Glennie (DAL), Erik Gudbranson (FLA), Calvin de Haan (NYI ), Zach Hamill (BOS), Ryan Johansen (CBJ), Jacob Markstrom (FLA), Ryan McDonagh (NYR), Chet Pickard (NSH), Brayden Schenn (LAK), Jordan Schroeder (VAN), Kevin Shattenkirk (COL), Jeff Skinner (CAR), Magnus Svensson Paajarvi (EDM), Tomas Tatar (DET), Mattias Tedenby (NJ), and Mats Zuccarello-Aasen (NYR).
tdchi
Tue Aug 31 2010 7:54 am EST
Vic - While my initial inclination is to agree with those two guys taking up top-two center roles with the team, it simply doesn't make ANY sense on paper...Just think about it in terms of last year's lines: When do you remember seeing Dubinsky, Prospal, Callahan, or Gaborik on any of the bottom two lines? Maybe for a shift or two, but not even for an entire game...now add FROLOV into the mix...That's five spots of six on the top two...Now if you even take ONE of WHITE or CHRISTENSEN up there, it means DRURY is banished to third line... I can see that happening...but who does the other beat out for a spot? I'm not sure who the odd man out will be, but my gut says Christensen. His inconsistency will earn him a spot on the waiver wire...but then again, depending on who makes the team(See: McDonagh and MZA especially), White is the most ideal guy to send packing...he'd probably garner a look on the waiver wire and has a salary that would almost allow both of those rookies to take a spot on the team...As for STAAL, I could see the franchise folding before the Rangers walk away from this guy. NO WAY do they not sign Staal...in the extremely unlikely event that he's priced himself out of the Garden's ballpark, they'll get a HEFTY return for the guy...we're talking the top-line center we've all be pining for... I DO think he'll miss camp...or at least most of it up until cuts...Ironically, I think the KEY to the puzzle here is REDDEN. If you go back and read all the things Torts has said about him since the break-up, its that he was told he's going to need to come into camp and earn his spot. Now, not only is he competing against other defenders(McDonagh, Valentenko, Sauer, and Eminger), but he's also competing against the cap. So basically, the guy has to win his spot on the blueline AND skate better than any combination of Staal's salary(likely $4.2 million)...In other words, he's got to beat out million-dollar forwards like MZA, White, Avery and to some extent, Christensen. That's not just a fire under the guy's ass...that's a raging inferno.
tdchi
Tue Aug 31 2010 7:53 am EST
Vic glennie will have egg on his face if he can't sign Staal, but will use every cya trick in the book in the meantime. Then he'll be his usual egotistical vindictive arrogant self, living on TGO et al accomplishments. He's a legend in his own mind. The last 10 years prove that.
stevielegs
Tue Aug 31 2010 7:13 am EST
STEVIE: I have been saying for months that they would be lucky to resign STAAL and GIRARDI this offseason. They managed to get GIRARDI signed but it would not surprise me at all if they don't sign STAAL. Maybe they already have a deal worked out and are just waiting for the Cap room to announce it and file it with the league. We shall see.......
Vic
Tue Aug 31 2010 7:04 am EST
So the NYR are going to promote how many kids from Hartford? As the usual mo of the genius, he just keeps signing outsiders, I guess what he has is not as great as he and his crew says. Or they are not ready yet, or they'll never be ready, or they didn't kiss his rings, etc etc....bobby spaghetti........but ask farterella, the kids will get A chance. ......rub your rabbit foot, for a team that has lots of 3rd line players called seconds......or 2nds....alias 3rd & 4th liners on a real TEAM......a good or lucky coach and gm can make the playoffs even with this roster........they should be able to copy the post lockout team with the proper motivation, along with creating chemistry and a TEAM.......... but they'll have to do it in spite of the 2 inhibitors !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!.............so will glennie trade Staal or his rights for doing a dubi?........
stevielegs
Tue Aug 31 2010 5:06 am EST
Well, you can bet on this much, sight unseen: he can DRINK, and he can SWIM.
FerociousMonk
Tue Aug 31 2010 12:09 am EST
TD: Just my opinion but I don't think CHRISTENSEN and WHITE were signed to play anything other then the top 2 Center spots on this team. I believe the intention is to go to camp with those two penciled in for now. Should one of the kids end up being ready to take one of those spots then either CHRISTENSEN or WHITE can be jettisoned with little concern. Frankly, I would be surprised if STEPAN was anywhere near ready. Same goes for AA. Judging from where AA was last year I think he is still a year or two away from claiming a 2nd line Center spot. I think DRURY gets moved to wing this season. There really is no need to keep him at Center anymore. I think you will see DRURY playing wing on one of the top two lines. I could be completely wrong and probably am. Who knows what the clueless jackass (SATHER) was thinking. Some of the moves made this off-season defy logic....
Vic
Mon Aug 30 2010 11:12 pm EST
I vote for the throwing shit at the wall theory. I don't believe Sather has any clue what he is doing. To me it is like Sather throws a deck of cards in the air each summer and hopes a winning hand turns face up on top. This signing is just like the Rissmiller signing albeit for less money/years. In fact all the the lesser moves this summer feel like we gained a bunch of Rissmillers. A) why the F do the rangers want them? B) where are the roster spots? and C) how the hell do they fit under the cap? bah...
NYStranger
Mon Aug 30 2010 10:36 pm EST
pa.ranger: That rumour was around when the Rangers were apparently in the running for Kovalchuk. At the time, it kinda made no sense to have him and Gabbie and the Kings were in the market for Kovalchuk, so there was some logic to such a move. Now it makes no sense....
RF4L
Mon Aug 30 2010 9:53 pm EST
td: Could be, but here's another thought: Sather is simply throwing shit at the wall and hoping something sticks.
RF4L
Mon Aug 30 2010 8:09 pm EST
maybe sather bought a rabbit foot for his key chain......
stevielegs
Mon Aug 30 2010 6:59 pm EST
Just read a post on the TSN comments section regarding Kennedy, Gabby is being offered to L.A. Just reporting what I read.
pa.rangersfan
Mon Aug 30 2010 6:09 pm EST
Here's my take on KENNEDY. First, take for granted that the top five forwards on the Rangers are indeed FROLOV, GABORIK, PROSPAL, DUBINSKY, and CALLAHAN; add to that mix one of the following: WHITE, DRURY, AVERY or ANISIMOV(throw CHRISTENSEN in if you want, but I don't think you'll see him anywhere near the top two lines this year)...By process of elimination, you have the bottom line guys being MZA, BOOGARD, BOYLE and PRUST...Among them, you know the two muscle guys are going to take up two bottom line spots, and Boyle(at $500,000 per) is the lowest paid Ranger forward now, save for Kennedy...Now we have a situation where REDDEN is expected to come to camp and finally show that he's a top-tier defender...Kennedy offers the Rangers the option to keep him on the roster...Say Reds is kept, they can demote White($2.3 million), Eminger($1.1 million) and MZA($1.7 million for a total savings of $5.2 million(roughly)...take $4.2 million to sign STAAL...and then pay VALENTENKO(a stay-at-home defender)$800,000 or SAUER $500,000 as the seventh defender...that sets up a situation where the Rangers have 13 forwards and seven defenders, which is pretty much what Torts was crying for last season...then again, it also means no MZA, no McDONAGH(who would make $1.3 million in the bigs)...My summation is that Sather and Torts are setting up a situation where they have a degree of flexibility with their roster so that depending on how players perform in camp, they can plan accordingly...just a thought though.
tdchi
Mon Aug 30 2010 3:53 pm EST
RF4L - Again, why worry about room for "MZA, Grachev, Stepan, Byers or Weise" if they aren't ready, aren't good enough yet or can just benefit from experience in Hartford?..If one of these guys (MZA???) is good enough, I'm betting he forces his way onto the roster and it won't be a problem..
Hospo
Mon Aug 30 2010 2:22 pm EST
schneid: Yes please!
RF4L
Mon Aug 30 2010 2:20 pm EST
RF4L- Well, if SATHER and TORTS practice what they preach, maybe AVERY, WHITE and BOYLE are goners...
schneidw
Mon Aug 30 2010 2:10 pm EST
I guess the Rangers wanted to sign Tim Connolly but misread something? Connolly, Kennedy... whatever, they are both named Tim!
rangerfan2000
Mon Aug 30 2010 2:09 pm EST
Kennedy and Avery and Boogaard and Prust and Drury and Boyle and White and Dubi and Gabbie and Frolov and Christensen and AA and Prospol is 1 forward too many and means there's no room for MZA, Grachev, Stepan, Byers or Weise....
RF4L
Mon Aug 30 2010 1:56 pm EST
KENNEDY- A low cost signing... conspiracy theorist can argue that Avery is expendable and his production does not equal the hassle of the distractions he brings to the NYR lineup... Kennedy could replace Avery who would be bought out... Not out of the question.... Another more realistic scenario...Grachev is NOT ready and needs to go back to Hartford...Kennedy fills in for one year...
schneidw
Mon Aug 30 2010 1:24 pm EST
Kennedy-1 year-550k
puckyou
Mon Aug 30 2010 1:19 pm EST
RF4L: Well Kennedy is only 24...with less than one full yer on his resume, its not like he is a vet...I get your point, but I dont think this says they dont think the kids in place already are not good enough, in fact they may have signed this kid in order to fill the void in hartford, EXPECTING a kid or two to make the jump, if not right away, than during the season.
Wildcard
Mon Aug 30 2010 1:11 pm EST
Hospo: What I was getting at was that with Boogaard being such a bad skater, that its would be good to have a guy who can skate well to cover up for him. Boyle cant do that, so maybe Kennedy can. That way when Boogaard goes in for a hit, there is a center who can defend, and actually get back defensivly, to help out when the puck starts down the other way. Not a better skater to play WITH boogard, but...well in spite of him.
Wildcard
Mon Aug 30 2010 1:06 pm EST
td: From what I understand the biggest knock on O'Sullivan is that he's a headcase and the fact that he's talented yet now well on his way to being recognized as a journey man forward is certainly proof of that. No?
RF4L
Mon Aug 30 2010 1:04 pm EST
Hospo: I know we've had discussions about this in the past and we don't always agree, but I think it's imperative that an organization position it's prospects in a positive manner that includes ensuring there are roster spots available (especially if management believes the lineup needs an infusion of youth and there are players ready to step up). I've watched this organization over the years pay lip-service to the introduction of youth time and time again. This past summer we heard from both Tortorella and Sather about staying the course (ie not trading youth) and that it's a clean slate come training camp and those who deserve a spot will get a spot. Signing/acquiring the likes of Prospal, Christensen, Boogaard, White and now Kennedy sends a clear message to the kids that management doesn't believe anyone's ready. And I'm not necessarily saying anyone is ready - just commenting on the message that's delivered when a bunch of middling veterans are signed/acquired.
RF4L
Mon Aug 30 2010 1:02 pm EST
Re: KENNEDY – I'd put this signing in the “MEH” category. From what I recall, Kennedy, while smaller, is a feisty little bugger...I read on one site that he's also a center, which one guy offered as evidence that BOYLE is on his way out...personally, I think its another forward to add into the eclectic mix...Bringing in this many bodies means its sink or swim for a lot of the marginal flailing prospects on the periphery...or maybe put him on a line with WHITE and CHRISTENSEN...they could be the “meh” line...inspiring fans to get as drunk as possible during the first period so they can sleep through the other two...I will say I'm a bit flummoxed why a guy like this was brought in, when I'm sure someone like O'SULLIVAN could have been had for a similar contract. And O'Sullivan plays center(though I heard his big knock is that he can't play any defense, which wouldn't help this team much).
tdchi
Mon Aug 30 2010 12:39 pm EST
RF4L - Do we really care bout the "sent message to the likes of Stepan, Grachev, Byers, Weise and Dupont"? Only the first two of them are likely to be NHLers and none of them this year....Kennedy or White or Boytano, doesn't really matter much....Except when AA or Drury is hurt and Christensen and WHite become twp of your top two centers.
Hospo
Mon Aug 30 2010 12:34 pm EST
WILDCARD - why would you want a better skater with Boogaard? Boogaard is probably the worst player and skater in the NHL, you put a better skater on the ice with him and they will never be in the same area code together! As for Kennedy..no problem in sigining him for that chump change...Cool for a hartford player/emergancy call up....
Hospo
Mon Aug 30 2010 12:31 pm EST
If that's all, then hopefully as Hospo suggests, he's Hartford bound and only plays in NY if there's a long string of injuries. Signing him for the big roster sends what sort of message to the likes of Stepan, Grachev, Byers, Weise and Dupont?
RF4L
Mon Aug 30 2010 12:27 pm EST
Kennedy is 24.
Danylo Halytskyj
Mon Aug 30 2010 12:25 pm EST
Here is a partial list of unsigned UFAs - see if anyone can make a connection: Aaron Ward, Nigel Dawes, Garth Murray, Kim Johnsson, Andy Hutchinson, Petr Sykora, Matt Schneider, Dwight Helminen, Jed Ortmeyer, Derek Armstrong, Bryce Lampman, Lawrence Nycholat, Donald Brashear, Josh Gratton, Paul Mara, Mike Mottau, Jason Ward, Mitch Fritz.
Danylo Halytskyj
Mon Aug 30 2010 12:24 pm EST
From Gross :"The Buffalo News is reporting Kennedy agreed to a one-year, one-way deal worth $550,000. But Kennedy also receives $333,333 from the Sabres as a result of the buyout." If true, for 550,000 for one year, on a kid who is what 25?, 26? is a good "risk" even if he doesnt improve the team, he is cheap and if he does do well, than its a steal. Perhaps there is a trade comeing, or they wanted someone for the Pack. But he would probably be a better option at center of the 4th line than Boyle. Definatly a better skater, and with Boogaard...well, it needed. And he is a good two way guy, more defensive than offensive...but still, for 550K, i wont complain too much.
Wildcard
Mon Aug 30 2010 12:07 pm EST
RF4L- Ah, the march to mediocrity continues with Kennedy..but, kifdding aside, the offense blows in Hartford so perhaps he could be of use there....But far be from the Bozo Brigade of Sather and Torts to reach out and sign a D-man that can actually play defense...I can only hope that they are biding their time
Hospo
Mon Aug 30 2010 12:01 pm EST
Tim Kennedy: Just what the Rangers need - another smallish bottom 6 forward.
RF4L
Mon Aug 30 2010 11:50 am EST
Rangers rumored to be signing Tim Kennedy to a 2-way deal-per Gross
puckyou
Mon Aug 30 2010 11:44 am EST
E - Which team were you last year? Or did you take the season off? You can shoot me an e-mail at xitriton@yahoo.com and I'll ship ya' details. I still have everyone's e-mail from last year, save for "The Marcel Dionnes" and "Kauai Honu"(who already signed up again. Just holler, and we'll get ya' aboard.
tdchi
Mon Aug 30 2010 11:06 am EST
DANY/Puckyou - More then likely, Redden, Christensen and White (ala Esa Tikannen III years ago when he was the best player in camp) will have good camps and win jobs on the team as they compete against schlubs in the pre-season..How bad and worhtless they are won't become apparent until about 10 games into the season.
Hospo
Mon Aug 30 2010 10:23 am EST
tdchi: I din't receive an email. strange...
E
Mon Aug 30 2010 10:11 am EST
I find it interesting that Redden was present - he is going to probably try and do his best to bust his ass to stay on the team and keep his $6.5 mil on our cap and if he does then coast next year.
Danylo Halytskyj
Mon Aug 30 2010 10:04 am EST
Lundqvist, Drury, Prospal, Dubinsky, Redden, Anisimov, Grachev, Zuccarello-Aasen, White & Valentenko all particpating today at #NYR workout
puckyou
Mon Aug 30 2010 9:43 am EST
TD: I have no doubt that GILROY was pulled aside and told to tone it down. If not by the coaching staff then by some of the veteran players with HANK probably being one of the most likely. I loved watching him skate and rush the puck up the ice in preseason but most of the time he got caught up ice and left REDDEN alone to defend an odd man opportunity. If I recall correctly it cost the Rangers a goal early in the season and after that he pretty much stopped rushing the puck altogether. I have no doubt it is because he was told to tone it down. In my opinion I would rather live with the occasional odd man rush if it helps generate offense. This team has so few people who can skate and move the puck like GILROY that it desperately needs him to contribute offensively. They should pair him with McSsiah. That way GILROY could rush the puck as much as he wants and McSsiah can handle any odd man rushes against......;-)
Vic
Mon Aug 30 2010 8:56 am EST
Dany - agreed. O'SULLIVAN is another guy I could see being a big help to a team like Pittsburgh. But instead, they signed ASHAM, who pundits are already predicting as a 50-50 chance to skate on Crosby's wing...mf - if the Devils are seriously thinking about ditching ZAJAC, I'd drop a hook out for him. The guy is a solid center and would EASILY by first-line on the Rangers. Not sure what it would take to get him though.
tdchi
Mon Aug 30 2010 8:48 am EST
BTW...RFC FANTASY HOCKEY LEAGUE HAS BEEN CREATED!! Sorry about the delay, but when I announced it earlier this month, Yahoo hadn't even gotten around to resetting things from last season...anyway...all returning managers SHOULD have gotten a message from Yahoo today, and if you didn't, check your SPAM filter. I figure I'll give it a week for everyone to respond, then open it up to anyone else who is new this year and chimed in below...ALSO...I'd like to certify the league pretty much as soon as we have 20 GMs(if we have that many this year), so MAKE SURE TO DO YOUR DRAFT RANKINGS POST HASTE! As soon as we're certified, the draft occurs within 24 hours...that is, unless we want to try the 'Live Draft' option...which would be interesting I suppose....I, of course, have already pick Ryan McDONAGH first overall...Anyway, hope to see you all back this year. Last season was a blast, even though I had to struggle for 12th overall.
tdchi
Mon Aug 30 2010 8:45 am EST
from todays NY Poest: Devils could part with Zajac if Kovalchuk stays........... Read more: http://www.nypost.com/p/sports/devils/devs_face_ilya_hit_EM7ryF11k7bI0DSeRJvTfI#ixzz0y63V8T5P
mf
Mon Aug 30 2010 8:43 am EST
Hell, if I;m the Pitt GM I sign both Dawes and Svatos and if they don't work out waive them.
Danylo Halytskyj
Mon Aug 30 2010 8:41 am EST
I'm also surprised that the Penguins aren't taking a shot at a guy like Dawes who would come cheap and could bury more passes from Crosby and Malkin than most of the guys they have on wing.
Danylo Halytskyj
Mon Aug 30 2010 8:39 am EST
RF4L - I agree, but who would you rather have White, Christensen or Comrie. Comrie already has two 30 goal seasons under his belt and is still only 29. White is clearly at the end of the line and Christensen has not proved anything yet at the NHL level. And I gotta say seeing Hillary Duff at the Garden would be a throw back to the old Carol Alt days so that would be a win even if Comrie blows as badly as White or Christensen.
Danylo Halytskyj
Mon Aug 30 2010 8:33 am EST
danylo: The problem is Comrie/White/Christensen are all the same sort of players - that is a poor man's second line center who's effectiveness as a 2nd line center is wholly dependent on playing behind an effective 1st line, something the Rangers as we all painfully know so well, don't have.
RF4L
Mon Aug 30 2010 8:31 am EST
I am actually amazed Sather hasn't signed Comrie. Not saying I am thrilled with that idea but since his parents are family friends of Sather and there is a glaring hole up the middle I am wondering what the problem is there.
Danylo Halytskyj
Mon Aug 30 2010 8:31 am EST
td: I think Eminger will be in the starting 6 and perhaps maybe even paired with your boy McDonagh, meaning one of the hoRRor twins will be gone. Staal/Girardi, MDZ/Rozey, Eminger/McDonagh or Gilroy.
RF4L
Mon Aug 30 2010 8:01 am EST
And on SALVADOR...I've got one word for ya':NO.
tdchi
Mon Aug 30 2010 8:00 am EST
RF4L - I agree to some extent. Having watch GILROY in pre-season...and then seeing what he became by mid-season. But I do think he started the year off playing much as he did in exhibition play. He looked perfectly fine during the first dozen games or so. Then he slowly faded to a non-entity by the midway point...It wouldn't surprise me to hear that he was told to tone it down, especially given who the coach is. And that's one of my main criticisms of TORTS is that he simply doesn't utilize the strength of players. It seems to me that he has a formula that he refuses to deviate from, so he's constantly trying to jam players into roles that either they aren't suited for or are a poor fit...as a whole, though...I hoping to see an improved defense this year...more or less banking on the fact that some of these guys will improve their play with a year under their belt(MDZ and Gilroy)...I still wish they had nabbed Morrison or Volchenkov instead of EMINGER...but I'm not certain the later will even be on the team come October.
tdchi
Mon Aug 30 2010 7:40 am EST
IMO, Gilroy looked fabulous in the pre-season and then once the regular season began, he was completely different. In the former, he was rushing the puck and looked very impressive doing so. Once the regular season started, no more puck rushing. I don't know what happened - I realize there's a considerable difference between the pre-season and regular season, but to abruptly change reeks to me of being told by the coach to tone things down. If that's accurate, it's foolish. Let a player play to his strengths. If Gilroy picks up where he left this season, it's quite likely he'll be Hartford bound. With the hoRRor twins around the Rangers can ill-afford a 3rd struggling d-man on the team.
RF4L
Mon Aug 30 2010 2:11 am EST
And to be honest, I also don't get the trashing of MDZ and Gilroy. They are two young FANTASTIC looking D's -- both of them. MDZ just happeneds to be two steps above Gilroy. Any D on a team like ours will be exposed from time to time. I mean, put Chris Pronger out there and he would be turned inside out more then a few times per season, given how little we support our D's. Then keep in mind that these kids are rookie D's in the NHL, your are bound to make some misstakes.
Ola
Mon Aug 30 2010 2:09 am EST
There is a lot of talk about our blueline, but go back and watch Ottawa like 2 years ago. A blueline don't make a team. Nor break a team (completely) really either (if other pices are in place). We need a crease clearar -- no doubt. But if we want a good team --we need a lot of other pices as well and on that list that crease-clearer comes far down on the list.
Ola
Mon Aug 30 2010 1:07 am EST
mf- Salvadors 34! the Blues felt he was expendable three or four seasons ago.
Messier11
Sun Aug 29 2010 8:48 pm EST
So, if the Debbies sign IK, this guy is rumored to be on the trading block.........Bryce Salvador: Considered much more of a defensive defensemen, Salvador rarely shows any offensive prowess, tallying just 11 points this season (3 goals, 8 assists). Salvador's biggest problem is staying out of the penalty box, with 40 PIMS (Penalties in Minutes). Down the stretch, Salvador will need to stay out the box and continue to be a big-bodied type of player who has no problem taking the body on any forward........... http://www.devilsnetmix.com/2010/01/defense-wins-championships.html
mf
Sun Aug 29 2010 6:30 pm EST
If it comes down to the Devils getting a 9 mil or so per year cap hit I hope they sign Kovalchuk. He will wreak havoc on their cap and it will kill all future hometown discounts handed out by players to stick with the Devils.
Danylo Halytskyj
Sun Aug 29 2010 6:16 pm EST
stevie - Sure, if ROZSIVAL and REDDEN weren't on the team...sure...maybe Sather would take a stab at KOVALCHUK. But last I checked, they ARE on the team...Of course if they WEREN'T on the team, I'd say the Rangers would have been better off taking that money and investing it into VOLCHENKOV and MORISSON, so that the defense would actually be tough. Simply put, there is NO argument that would justify the Rangers signing IK. None. He costs too much and brings too little...and I have a feeling there were other NHL teams that came to the same conclusion...mf - With IK, what you see is what you get. There's no molding a player like that...which is why it's so funny that he's about to sign with the defensive-minded Devils...And I have a feeling if you could get an honest word out of Lou Lamareillo, he'd tell you IK was among the last UFA he wanted to sign and that his acquisition had mroe to do with ownership an ownership decision...IK is going to seriously screw up their cap situation during a time when both PARISE and ZAJAC are due big raises...and just a couple years before they're going to need to start sniffing around for a goaltender to replace Uncle Daddy.
tdchi
Sun Aug 29 2010 4:27 pm EST
Any input on Bryce Salvador? Is this guy the type of D'man we need? Would Lemon Lou deal with us? thank you """"""""Ilya deal would start chain reaction for Devils""""""" ........ Read more: http://www.nypost.com/p/sports/devils/ilya_to_start_chain_reaction_j5TJsKX6NabwK7WbGTt6rI#ixzz0y23lHEn4
mf
Sun Aug 29 2010 4:11 pm EST
This teams situation sucks, plain & simple.... There is no need for name calling here... If a novice such as myself can see how piss poor this team has been managed, anyone can.... Slegs, at approx $10mill per, IK may not be tradeable unless we put him on waivers and ate 1/2 his salary...tIf we needed to dump him, sending him down and eating $10mill is a hard pill to swallow... Dont get me wrong, I could stand seeing him play on B'way, and I do believe he'd bring up his defensive game/responsibility because he would have too, not because I have anything to substantiate this on.. We saw Zherdev hustle back and make a diving sweep-check that was a highlight reel play, and we've seen Gabby hustle back on "D." I believe IK would pick up that part of his game...... As for what this team needs most, first, etc, its a fuggin quagmire-fustercluck.... With the pre-season approaching, the signing and trding should pick up......Maybe Sather can pick up Savard, and who knows, maybe "E's" suggestion of Exelby is a good one for us at this time .... end of rant.....
mf
Sun Aug 29 2010 1:50 pm EST
ain't happening with the nyr nor the nyk. as is .........http://www.nhl.com/ice/gallerylanding.htm?id=7059
stevielegs
Sun Aug 29 2010 1:24 pm EST
tdchi wasting 11 mil on deaden and rozival would be better spent on Kovachuk. And nobody seems to wants them, Kovalchuk & Gaborik are trade-able.
stevielegs
Sun Aug 29 2010 1:21 pm EST
York DF are your initials? My statement on Sather stands, this team gets nowhere near the finals while he is still here. He tried getting centers and D men, look at the results. Maybe you need to chill.
stevielegs
Sun Aug 29 2010 12:22 pm EST
The whole KOVALCHUK argument is moot...the Rangers aren't and never were in the running for IK...those of you who want to blame this on Sather's incompetence can't see the forest through the trees. The only way I could see getting on his case for it is if you are among the few who think he should have NOT signed GABORIK and instead waited for a crack at IK.
tdchi
Sun Aug 29 2010 11:07 am EST
Stevie if you weren't so quick to be a wise ass and took your head out of your ass, I said this team needs a center in my original post DF.
York18
Sun Aug 29 2010 11:06 am EST
Stevie, Really, if you're serious then you need to stop with the fire sather BS and start watching hockey again. There is a difference between spending half your cap on two of the same kind of one dimensional players and building an actual team. Getting a top flight center, and a shut down Dman who is physical is not fantasy hockey, that;s building a team. Spending half your cap on two of the same one dimensional players is fantaasy hockey. IK and Gabby are pretty much interchangable, with the reality of give me Gabby over IK because he at least makes the guys around him better and plays some D, IK does none of those things. He is one of my favorite players to watch, but Kova does nothing to make this team better when and where we need it most. Money spent on him is better served addressing this teams REAL weakness NO CENTER! I can't believe you are so far gone you don't even see the obvious.
York18
Sun Aug 29 2010 10:30 am EST
..."... what has IK done in the playoffs, or won? Nothing, the guy is a great individual player and if this were a skills comp great, but it's not."....if that is true than it's true of Gaborik and many other players including Ovechkin........I call BS .......the NYR with Gaborik & Kovalchuk, would be much better than just with Gaborik..........but they'd be better with a top center, and d man, but that's probably fantasy hockey too.
stevielegs
Sun Aug 29 2010 8:59 am EST
Ken, in reguards to IK, this isn't fantasy hockey, but that's how you talk about it. Two one dimensional scorers eating up tons of cap space, not too bright. Especially when your team lacks an elite level center and will have to sign one, or trade for one in the next two years if they want to be serious about competing. Further, what has IK done in the playoffs, or won? Nothing, the guy is a great individual player and if this were a skills comp great, but it's not.
York18
Sun Aug 29 2010 8:42 am EST
long hockey you tubes.........http://www.nydailynews.com/blogs/rangers/
stevielegs
Sat Aug 28 2010 11:47 pm EST
New regime in Tampa as Yzerman takes charge...................http://www.nhl.com/ice/news.htm?id=536463
mf
Sat Aug 28 2010 12:24 pm EST
Ooh...94, not 04...I misread...oops.
RF4L
Sat Aug 28 2010 12:17 pm EST
Ken - In short, NO...I wouldn't deal those prospects for TAVARES. And I I'm not sure many GMs WOULD. Sure, he's an elite skilled player and will probably one day go on to score 40 goals...but there's also a chance he won't...STAMKOS is a bit different. He's already there. Still, you're giving up four guys who are roundly regarded as high-caliber players who are all but assured careers in the NHL...Now onto the rest of your post...you say " the same guys who defend the presence of a $7M dollar Chris Drury on the NYR roster, loathe at the thought of paying $10M to a 27 year old proven perrenial 40-50 goal scoring elite superstar"...well...you simply DON'T get it. WATCH Kovalchuk. And by watch, I mean something other than his highlight reel goals. Watch his play without the puck. He doesn't address the team's needs and he's going to take up cap space that the Rangers could use next season to sign a guy like RICHARDS......or trade for someone like SPEZZA. You sign IK, you have him, Drury, Lundqvist and Gaborik eating up nearly HALF your cap...and your team, while possibly more productive, STILL lacks a top-line center to match with Crosby, Backstrom and Toews(for instance)...Or Datsyuk, Thornton or Sedin..Furthermore, how do you explain to IK or Gaborik their role on second line? 'Cause you're NOT going to put two puck-possession guys on the same line together...example...remember the type of unmitigated disaster GOMEZ was with JAGR? Well, multiply that times 10...I tell you one thing, who ever was the guy to play on the lower line wouldn't exactly take the assignment with a smile....On DRURY, it's not a matter of defending his contact: It's simply indefensible. But you can't say he doesn't play a necessary role on the team...and one that would NEED to be replaced if he were moved...so in other words, he's a necessary evil on the team, unless somehow you can find a way to move him while bringing in someone else to be a PK specialist...See, your philosophy on building teams is one that might bring you success in fantasy sports or on paper. But in actual practice, it would be a dismal failure.
tdchi
Sat Aug 28 2010 12:11 pm EST
RF4L - last i checked Sather had nothing to do with running the 94 Rangers other than trading us half of the Oilers.
Danylo Halytskyj
Sat Aug 28 2010 9:39 am EST
Let's make this Isles/NYR thing very simple....................Would you trade Stepan, Grachev, Kreider AND McDonough for Tavares??? Of course you would. Just like you would have traded those four for Stamkos or any other serious, elite prospect..........This has been the point of my rants for years. It's "quality" with prospects, not "quantity." Homegrow and be patient with all the either side of average draft picks you want and they won't ever add up to the impact of one #1 OA superstar. The NHL is becoming more and more like the NBA every year........star driven. In the NBA, you need two, in the NHL, 3-4.................fill in the rest of the roster each year and tinker with it to find team chemistry but your stars are your base..........................Two things I find funny: The same guys arguing that Gordie Clark's average position draft picks cannot be compared to those of the past use the past drafts of the Islanders to condemn their current crop.......Secondly, the same guys who defend the presence of a $7M dollar Chris Drury on the NYR roster, loathe at the thought of paying $10M to a 27 year old proven perrenial 40-50 goal scoring elite superstar. As if it would be somehow counterproductive to have TWO 40+ goal snipers on the same team........Oh, god forbid. Yeah, I've never seen a hockey club win with TWO elite forwards in their prime....perish the thought. IMO, there would be no better place to lock up $$$ long term than in Kovy. He's the real deal...........Ah hell, we'll draft two more Kreiders and play them all at the same time! Wait a minute........Playing three Kreiders might take away from the greatness of Gaborik..........hmmmmmm.
Ken
Sat Aug 28 2010 9:21 am EST
FM: No doubt Sather running up the payroll to nearly $90,000,000 had a significant role in that year's financial outcome. Can anyone remind me why this man keeps his job? Oh never mind - Jimmy Didding Dolans is the reason...
RF4L
Sat Aug 28 2010 8:31 am EST
OLA...I'm saying as a franchise, including merchandising, broadcast rights, etc., they lost money in 1994 - of all seasons, 1994. I work with someone who had access to their books during the period in which the franchise was up for sale. Their unprofitability was the reason they were passed over by more competent bidders.
FerociousMonk
Sat Aug 28 2010 6:42 am EST
OLA I'm not talking about the Rangers, I'm talking about the whole NHL, outside of the Flyers owner who owns Comcast there aren't many owners who own the TV rights, or their arena completely. Being an owner in the NHL is not lucrative for the most part. Look into how much the owner of the Sabres has lost since he bought them to keep them in Buff. That guy has now lost hundreds of millions of dollars keeping that team in Buff. Like I said this information isn't coming from some magazine, but talking to a huge power player in sports in general and an owner of an NHL team. I'm not dropping names only because it's not proper to do, but these guys know what they are talking about.
York18
Sat Aug 28 2010 6:09 am EST
Fm and York- I am not disputing your facts; but you certainly dont get the whole picture just by looking at say the NYR and the NYK isolated. By havibg thoose teams, you pay rent for an arena that you also can own. Then you can make à LOT of money on other event in that arena. You controls tv rights etc.
Ola
Sat Aug 28 2010 5:20 am EST
RF4L.....the only good news regardingth eIslanders is the fact that they have historically shipped out their young talent as soon as they where ready for big money. Having been burned by the Yashin and DiPietro contracts recently and Wang's quest for a realestate empire I think this rend will continue.
MelvilleFred
Fri Aug 27 2010 9:45 pm EST
The Rangers LOST money during 1994. I know that as a fact.
FerociousMonk
Fri Aug 27 2010 9:34 pm EST
Sorry Fred...sucks being a Ranger fan!
RF4L
Fri Aug 27 2010 9:13 pm EST
Hospo...RF4L....my worst nightmare will become a reality!!!!! Garth F'in Snow....I have to lve on this Island!
MelvilleFred
Fri Aug 27 2010 5:15 pm EST
http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=331834
stevielegs
Fri Aug 27 2010 2:07 pm EST
http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=331817
Danylo Halytskyj
Fri Aug 27 2010 1:59 pm EST
Hospo: Another bottom 5 finish for the Islanders will mean they add to that already growing list of talent and it won't be long before they are superior to the Rangers, especially if the Rangers keep selecting 10 to 20th overall. As much as I hate to admit it, Garth Snow actually seems to know what he's doing...
RF4L
Fri Aug 27 2010 1:56 pm EST
TDCHI - Thank God there are some teams that are out of the Rangers league..But the islanders and the Oilers are about it..and the Oilers have a much better fit at coach then the Rangers do..Still, thank god for the woeful Islanders..Not saying the Ranges will finish in the bottom five (I'm saying bottom 10), but it's as possible as making the POs..
Hospo
Fri Aug 27 2010 1:55 pm EST
And on the team, besides Tavares, is Okposo and Josh Bailey. They finally seem to be doing the right thing, although I will acknowledge that they have very little to show, until the last 2 drafts, for 10 years of lousiness. Mind you, we can say the same thing about the Rangers, can't we (save for the King)?
RF4L
Fri Aug 27 2010 1:53 pm EST
Re Islanders: To me the biggest discrepancy is their goaltending; the Rangers clearly are better with the King. They do have some impressive prospects, however, including Nino Niederreiter, Travis Hamonic (methinks Ranger fans will come to dislike this hard-hitting d-man in the next few years), Calvin de Haan, Brock Nelson and if he ever gets his stupid head on straight, Kirill Kabanov. And John Tavares will one day be a 50 goal man IMO - he's an elite talent who only needs time/experience to become a dominant force in the league.
RF4L
Fri Aug 27 2010 1:38 pm EST
RF4L- to think the islanders are going to even be in the same league as the Rangers is a stretch. That team, even with very good young talent like TAVARES or OKPOSO, makes the Rangers look like a cup contender. They'll be lucky to move out of the basement in the league, much less the east.
tdchi
Fri Aug 27 2010 12:35 pm EST
RF4L they let them front load any contract including the 3 stooges sather signed. They need to limit the years and not allow front load, if that's the solution. They would be better off copying baseball's cap. The NYY are supporting the small market teams. Then jimmyboy can go back to having genius waste daddy's money BIG time. He'd have 23 Kovalchuk $100 mil contacts, and probably still not get The Cup !
stevielegs
Fri Aug 27 2010 12:10 pm EST
stevie: And yes, the NHL screwed up letting the Hossa, Pronger, et all contracts go thru, but it's interesting to note that apparently with each, they warned all involved that they were reserving the right to revisit the legality of each if/when they so choose. Personally, I don't blame the NHL for rejecting that deal - at least a deal like Hossa's wasn't so obvious (drops from a high of $7,000,000 to a low of $1,000,000), but Kovalchuk making $500,000 when he's 42? Come on, what's next? Maybe a team can sign the next big UFA next summer to 55 year $100,000,000 contract, paying the bulk of the $$ from year 1 to 5 at $15,000,000/per (for a total of $75,000,000), but with a cap hit of $5,000,000 over that span. The from years 6 to 55 pay out $500,000 with a similar cap hit to consume the remaining $25,000,000. Yeah, that's the ticket. That'll work! No specific rules in the CBA preventing that, apparently!
RF4L
Fri Aug 27 2010 12:01 pm EST
york: Agreed 100% - there are precious few NHL franchises earning good $$. It was said many times that the lockout was better financially for at least 1/2 of the NHL teams because no hockey meant no losses. You're also bang-on about the high-end players screwing it up for the low-end. Pretty funny when you consider they all pay dues into the same union! LOL....
RF4L
Fri Aug 27 2010 11:59 am EST
stevie: He never was offered $100,000,000 from the Thrashers, or so that's what I recall. He was offered $10,000,000 per season, but not a 10 year term. NJ gave him what he wanted via a bullshit contract - everyone and his gramma knows Kovalchuk would not be playing in NJ for $500,000 a season. What he wants no one can afford, pure and simple. So back the hell off if you wanna play in the NHL or go away. He epitomizes the greedy athlete, IMO. I'm glad Sather stayed the hell away - I'm so damn tired of overpaid underachieving mercenaries anyways....
RF4L
Fri Aug 27 2010 11:10 am EST
Want to apologize I was on the phone while trying to type that last post. What I was saying was owners aren't rich because they got so by owning a franchise, they are rich inspite of owning said franchise and often that's what keeps the franchise afloat.
York18
Fri Aug 27 2010 11:06 am EST
RF4L he feels he's entitled to Ovechkin/Crosby money, and the debbies and trashers agreed. But the nhl is playing hard ball after all the water they let spill with hossa, pronger et al. Otherwise he'd already be a debbie for life with the $100 mil he wants, and was signed for.
stevielegs
Fri Aug 27 2010 11:05 am EST
A few years ago I had a conversation with a very powerful player in the sports community who was a damn good college hockey player but when the business route out of college. Needless to say during our conversation I brought up hockey and during said conversation he said the players have gotten extremely greedy in hockey acting like they are baseball, or football players. He said owning an NHL franchise is not lucrative and many owners write off their capital gains against the losses of the hockey team they own. He went further by saying that owners are better off with lockouts because most save money during that time and that owning a franchise is a labor of love more than a great business decision. This is coming from a guy who was a player, never an owner and is friends with many owners. I then had the lucky fortune to speak with an owner and again the same thing was said that owning a team is not a money tree, but sometime you do out of love of the sport. He said very few franchises make big money and are huge because of said franchise, but are inspite of said ownership. Players have gotten greedy and if they continue they will soon put themselves out of jobs. The person I also spoke to said with the salary cap the high end players who are asking for insane amonuts are hurting the lower to mid level players because those types of experienced players will lose jobs to guys who will play for less money.
York18
Fri Aug 27 2010 11:02 am EST
The Isles have better prospects? pfff... I say. Niederreiter a potential 30 goal scorer? Harmonic? Calvin de Haan? Seriously, they have Tavares, no depth at all on skill positions now that shifty Okposo has graduated, and not one goal tender who is going to be worth his weight in salt. I am exaggerating of course but the Isles stockpile of talent does not keep me awake at night at all. in fact, for all of their sucking over the past what? 10-years? This is all they have to show for it? Makes Sather look like the best GM in hockey. Look at our guys: Grachev, Stepan, Krieder, and McDonaugh. I take our guys all day long.
E
Fri Aug 27 2010 9:51 am EST
RF4L=Rangers or Islanders? Talent-Rangers. Hank ensures the Rangers will finish higher. The Isles have better young players and better coaching. They are still a couple years away.
Bob
Fri Aug 27 2010 9:33 am EST
stevie: I think you're missing the point - virtually every team in the NHL could use Kovalchuk but not a single team can afford to pay him the $$ he wants, save for perhaps Atlanta (although it's quite apparent that offer is no longer on the table). The only way to get him the $$ was to circumvent the integrity of the cap (the irony of havinng one of the more vocal organizations supporting the existence of the cap trying to find a way around it is actually quite amusing). Why doesn't this greedy SOB back off on his salary demands when it's clear no team is willing to meet them, if he actually wants to play in the best league in the world (which obviously he does or else he would have signed in the KHL a while ago)? I enjoy watching Kovalchuk play and it would indeed be a shame if he ends up overseas but aren't you just a tad tired of the endless string of greedy athletes who put $$ first and everything else second? I predicted this back in the spring when word came out that he turned down a multi-year $10,000,000/per from the Thrashers. Here we are in late August and the merri-go-round continues. Go the Russia already - I think I speak for many when I say we're all tired of your greedy and boring act.
RF4L
Fri Aug 27 2010 9:24 am EST
If Kovalchuk can't get the deal he wants or deserves then the KHL becomes more appealing. As we get closer and closer to a season, the dollars are likely to drop so I don' blame him for trying to pressure a deal now. Damn, if the Devils lose him its going to sting because you lose him for nothing after you shed a 1 and 2 + to get him. To make it worse you know damn well he is coming back to the NHL in the next few seasons. And after such a brilliant run for so many years the genius Lou Lam has begun a string of strikeouts. We will see what he is about now.
E
Fri Aug 27 2010 9:19 am EST
So which team will end up with more points? The Rangers or the Islanders?
RF4L
Fri Aug 27 2010 8:55 am EST
yea who needs any more elite level 28 year old hockey players besides the debbies? The NYR have top paid top talent like Drury, Redden, and Rozival. They aren't greedy, nor is any other NYR, but Kovalchuk is. Keep your fingers crossed he goes to the KHL, or the debbie dust will be hard to swallow. I don't care how much a player makes, as long as he does his job & delivers. Not that it really matters with this ownershit and mis-management of dis-organization. Keep that fake rebuild going until glennie turns 70 and hopefully retires. ....but I do wonder why Atlanta hasn't tried to resign him. .........
stevielegs
Fri Aug 27 2010 8:36 am EST
to add to that, the same things gives me hope for Prospal again this year and also Frolov, guys with short contracts, they NEED to prove they can still play, and will be putting 100% in every day, and every shift. Thats the most you can ask for from the guys on the ice, a good honest hard effort
Wildcard
Fri Aug 27 2010 8:34 am EST
RF4L: I say the same thing...goto the KHL and make your $$$...enjoy!! hat makes me even happier that teh Ragners didnt sign him. Would have been SOOO NYR, but this time instead of an older UFA comeing to NY for the $$ it would be a younger guy, but the end result would still be someone who felt like they got their big payday, and than what? You have a guy who puts in 90% every game, and less than that in practice...who wants that crap?
Wildcard
Fri Aug 27 2010 5:35 am EST
RF4L: This endorses your post..............................Report: Kovy has deadline for NHL.................http://www.nypost.com/p/sports/devils/report_kovy_has_deadline_for_nhl_RB4WaeszKR3CVASCnPKvRJ
mf
Thu Aug 26 2010 10:03 pm EST
mf: Good f'ing riddance. I've said it from the beginning - that greedy a-hole wants at least what he turned down from the Thrashers under the notion that he's more valuable to the NHL in general than he really is. The only way he can come close to finding that $$ is via a contract circumventing the integrity of the collective agreement. That is if he wants to play in the best league in the world. Otherwise, he can go find the $$ he so desperately craves and play in a league where cheating is rampant and should he suffer a serious injury he may or may not recover from. It's your decision you greedy asshole...
RF4L
Thu Aug 26 2010 9:56 pm EST
Kovalchuk could choose Russian option before weekend: report..............http://www.nypost.com/p/blogs/nhlblog/kovalchuk_could_choose_russian_option_1Ja956amWZNicm47QFERFJ
mf
Thu Aug 26 2010 7:34 pm EST
so does being a NYR fan qualify you for getting a prescription for legal weed? .....bong guard........
stevielegs
Thu Aug 26 2010 7:22 pm EST
HOSPO: and you would be right. We do need a top 6 defenseman. Any ideas??? The Rangers defense is going to be moribund. I have no illusions about this. After all, the rebuild is going great. After 11 years, we are as stocked as ever with completely mediocre talent. We are close to big things, 2048 is getting closer by the minute. I believe however, in these situations you throw players all against the wall and see what sticks. If I have to give Gilroy a shot at the top 6 (who I think is a buster) then I would just as soon give a top 6 to a guy like Exelby. You add Del "I coughed up the puck" Zotto, to a who's-who list of puck-schmucks and I don't know? Maybe Sanguinetti? Oh yeah, he was a bust too and outta here. Will the real Redden please stand up? Oh yeah, he did. But then McDonugh? I don't know. I guess my point re: Exelby is that the wall is pining for the big, mean, physical, crease-clearing, SOB. Exelby fits that mold. It is adding crap to a pile of crap though. You know, some people are just ugly. They can try hard. Eat right, hit the gym, dress well but then you introduce him to some of your female friends and she pulls you to the side and tells you, "he is ugly." You explain how fat he was, and how far he has come, and how he is a good guy but she just ain't turned on. The Rangers are that guy, and I feel like that girl. And then Sather puts out his cigar in your eye and tells you that you don't know dick about hockey. But, I respond: I do know we didn't make the playoffs last season and even if we did we would have been ousted quick. I do strongly believe that we have a slim chance to make the playoffs this season and if we do, we will be ousted quickly. And yes, I didn't put down the bong
E
Thu Aug 26 2010 7:11 pm EST
Ahhhh I forgot about that. Why wouldn't he right? That wud be to easy. And im not new been following since 97 I think.
schizaman
Thu Aug 26 2010 6:02 pm EST
schiza you're new but should know dreary has a nm clause. He goes only if he agrees to go. Would you?
stevielegs
Thu Aug 26 2010 5:26 pm EST
So how bout we dump redden and drury to the minors that frees up what 12 mill? Then make a run at kovalchuck?
schizaman
Thu Aug 26 2010 4:26 pm EST
E - The Rangers don;t need a 7th D-man with Grit..They need a top 6 D-man with grit ...One to play every night...Look at their D after Staal--Girardi - Inconsistent; Rosy - Horribe or good with no in-between; Redden - sucks; Gilroy - Sucks, Emminger - Sucks; Del Zero - Sucks defesnively.....Exelby would just add to this bunnch of trash..But who am I to criticize Sather and Torts, after all, they had all the answers last year!
Hospo
Thu Aug 26 2010 3:46 pm EST
With regard to Staal, I read a blog a whiel back......not that thats the unbridled truth.....but I saw that the rangers and Staal have basically agreed on the dollar amount. The question is how long.....Staal wanted 4 yrs...the Rangers 6....it had to do with unrestricted free agency. A side note...saw in a couple of placed that with Frolov signing and the money allocated for Staal, that practically makes Redden a Hartford Wolfpack regardless of the training camp he has.
jnyr
Thu Aug 26 2010 2:51 pm EST
TD: Good level-headed reply this morning. I really don't disagree with much of what you wrote per say but there are a few comments that I have. Regarding DRURY's drop off in defensive play I would simply suggest that if you have some tapes of his first season here, and particularly the playoffs, watch them again. Watch how good DRURY was on the backcheck and on breaking up plays (from a defensive perspective) in the offensive zone and NZ. I don't see that from him any more. He doesn't (can't ?) backcheck the way he used to and seems to have lost some of his quickness. In short, he isn't making the plays he used to and I made it a point of talking about his defensive play that year. He just hasn't been the same since. Regarding his offense, the crux of the problem is that his weakness at even strength become pretty much obvious when he was put in a position to play 2nd line center on this team. He just doesn't have the high-end skill that is necessary to create offense for himself or others. As you rightly point out he made a career out of being a sneaky, garbage goal opportunist. Unfortunately for him the Rangers are a team that is full of opportunistic garbage goal guys (CALLY, DUBI, AVERY, etc.) and they were looking for a guy who could create when they signed him. Again, we all know that those expectations and the salary that went with them were stupid from the start. I think his dropoff in PP time is a result of two factors. First, the Rangers have seen his lack of offensive creativity at even strength and have been hesitant to put him on the ice for fear of a lack of production. The second reason is that in DRURY they found the perfect partner for CALLY on the PK. The Rangers decided that the two of them needed to be their primary PK guys and that meant cutting their ice time on the PP. I don't think anyone here thinks that DRURY is a bad hockey player. Rather, most folks here see DRURY as a garbage goal guy that doesn't help the already anemic offense. They see him as a guy that can be a really good PK'er but not much more then that. He just doesn't do anything really well other then PK. The icing on the cake is that he is eating up 1/8th of cap. It is a lose-lose proposition.
Vic
Thu Aug 26 2010 2:48 pm EST
E: Yep, Exelby's a reasonable choice (and someone I forgot about) but I honestly think Sather believes his defense is fine.
RF4L
Thu Aug 26 2010 2:45 pm EST
TDCHI: I gotta disagree re: Exelby. Exelby is a serviceable 7 defenseman who would bring a lot more moxy and attitude to the Ranger blue line then Mara ever would. We have been down the Mara road already and I don't see him fitting the bill on what you guys are calling out for. Exelby is a guy while he will never wow you with his skating goes into the dirty areas of the ice and works people over. He has no issue getting into the fray. He will clear the crease the old school way. Lets put it this way, if Exelby was on the ice instead of Girardi when Gaborik was getting pounded, the outcome would be very different. And then there is that head on a swivel thing. Exelby can hit open ice. That is a skill that is more and more rare in the NHL. I am not necessarily jock riding on the guy but when we talk about a guy who brings the crease clearing and physical defenseman to fill in that 7 spot, this guy could be a very good fit. Plus, I like throwback old school mean SOB's who have no illusions about what their job is. I think some people are underestimating him.
E
Thu Aug 26 2010 2:21 pm EST
NYStranger: Yep because he has perceived leverage with the RFAs and none with UFAs. The thing is it seems when it comes to the latter he more often than not throws so much $$ around he competes only with himself. This certainly happened prior to the lockout (Kasparitis and Holik are but 2 prime examples) and incredibly enough has occurred since - the $$ he gave to Dreary, Gomez and the hoRRor twins are at way over market values. It was obvious when each was signed (especially Redden) and as time marches on and all 4 go about plying their trade, it becomes painfully evident to everybody. Of the 4, the best player is clearly Gomez which is the single biggest reason Sather was able to move him. No one wants either Redden or Dreary (and as we all know, the latter's NMC makes the point moot) and I gotta think the market for Rozevial is negigible...nice job Sather, you incompetent ass.
RF4L
Thu Aug 26 2010 1:39 pm EST
td - that's a possibility. They could be waiting for Camp to see who gets waived etc. But I have zero faith that Sather can think that far ahead.
NYStranger
Thu Aug 26 2010 1:36 pm EST
RF4L: see - Sather will throw money at some dreg like Redden without batting an eye, and then play hardball with his best homegrown D-man talent, by far. Makes no effin sense whatsoever. He is worse than Steinbrenner ever was back in his Bronx Zoo days. George loved to go out and overspend for some other team's free agent then shafted his own players and fans by getting cheep with his own players. (which drove them out a lot of times). We almost lost Dubi last season, but because Dubi is only half as good as he thinks he is, he didn't have much leverage. It's a totally different story with Staal, and Sather/Dopey are total assholes if they don't realize that Staal is the only solid D-man we have. I can just see the spin-doctoring if and when Staal leaves or gets traded! HA!!
NYStranger
Thu Aug 26 2010 1:11 pm EST
td: Mara is a decent 6th/7th d-man but doesn't bring the physical aspect a Mitchell does, which is what the defense desperatelyl needs. I agree Mitchell ain't the be all to end all - the Rangers should have targeted Andy Sutton. He certainly didn't sign for anything near what Mitchell landed and while older (35 I think) hasn't been plagued with head injuries. He's also one of those rare players who's gotten better in his mid-30s, especially with regards to positional play. I honestly think Sather believes he's built a solid backline that can get by without a physical player who cannot play on the top pairing (ie that's where they are projecting McIrath to be 1 day).
RF4L
Thu Aug 26 2010 1:07 pm EST
Danylo: Only if 1) I deemed it mandatory that Staal must be moved and 2) That's the best offer out there. I like Ryan and see his value but he doesn't address the gaping hole at center and wouldn't address what would become an equally massive hole on the backline (should Staal go).
RF4L
Thu Aug 26 2010 1:06 pm EST
RF4L – I have a feeling what is happening with STAAL is that he's been told he's getting the big payday and to wait for it after camp, when the Rangers have a better idea how their defense is going to shake out...I could foresee a similar situation arising as it did for DUBINSKY, only I think Staal is going to get a large, multi-year contract to the tune of $4.5 million....but in truth, the team COULD pay him up to $5 million per and still be within the 10 percent cap leeway allowed under the CBA. My guess is the ball is in Staal's court. I doubt money is the hold up. It's probably more the number of years he's signed for...on MITCHELL...jeeze...you would have thought Scott Stevens was just ripped out of the Rangers' clutches...Mitchell, BEFORE his concussion, was little more than third-pairing defender. I would rather throw an offer to Paul MARA(who is still a UFA) than Mitchell or EXELBY any day of the week. Mara was a class-act and probably could be signed for $1 million, though I don't think Torts thought very highly of him...Dany – At first glance, I'd say 'yes' hands down. Ryan is a very special player and could one day be mentioned among the top in the league. He also plays LW, which would be nice...but getting back to what I said to Ken...how would acquiring Ryan plug a hole in the Ranger lineup? I think he's a better option than KOVLACHUK...but he's still not a top center or hard-hitting stay-at-home defender. And if you trade Staal, you're opening yet another hole in the lineup...NTM...I doubt the Ducks would take JUST Staal for Ryan straight up...stevie – Why do you think they signed FROLOV? The two holes they plugged this off-season were secondary scoring and backup goaltending. Even in Frolov's off-year last season, he would have been second on the Rangers in scoring. NTM, he's a better team player than IK AND costs a third as much on the cap. And on that note, I'll say any chance the Rangers were going to get IK went right out the window when they signed Fro.
tdchi
Thu Aug 26 2010 1:01 pm EST
"...it's that he solves absolutely NONE...I repeat...NONE of the problems the Rangers have right now.....".....really? The NYR didn't lack scoring from a 2nd or 1a line? .....bong on..........All of a sudden the NYR don't need another score besides Gaborik? ....BS!.........let's see how they do when almost inevitably Gaborik is not in the lineup for hopefully not many games...........the NYR need a lot, including depth........
stevielegs
Thu Aug 26 2010 12:36 pm EST
RF4L - would you trade Staal for Ryan?
Danylo Halytskyj
Thu Aug 26 2010 10:34 am EST
E: Exelby's a reasonable choice, but in Tortorella's system (be that what it may be) he'll be exposed due to mediocre positioning. He is dirty though...
RF4L
Thu Aug 26 2010 10:06 am EST
HOSPO: u need an extra defender with some snarl who can dress as a 7? Go sign Garnett Exelby. He's no dynamic guy but he can clear a crease. You have to live with his penchant for bad penalties though. He would definitely up the "keep your head on a swivel quotient." some may be real down on him because of his fiasco in TO but he had some productive years in Atlanta as a top 6. I don't think he would hurt us as a number 7
E
Thu Aug 26 2010 9:27 am EST
NYStranger: Staal is by far and away the best Ranger defensemen (and no doubt a huge leverage point for Staal's agent). I heard a rumour yesterday that the Rangers will consider trading Staal if he remains unsigned by training camp, but I simply cannot believe that, given the defensemen he'd leave behind. I like MDZ's potential and remain hopeful Gilroy finds his game (that had better happen soon, however - he's already 26 years old), but even if both have stronger seasons defensively than last year, there's no escaping the playy of the hoRRor twins and joining them now is Eminger, thereby creating a tripod of mediocrity on the backline. Anyone who believes the Rangers won't be challenging for a lottery spot if Marc Staal isn't playing 24+ minutes a night for the Rangers isn't living in reality, IMO.
RF4L
Thu Aug 26 2010 9:21 am EST
Hospo: Sutton signed with Anahiem a couple of weeks back...to my recollection the only one of that ilk unsigned is Brendan Witt and really he's slowed down to the point where he might be a step back. The Canucks have at least 1 too many d-men and Shane O'Brien's been rumoured to be on the block. He's a big physical d-man who isn't afraid to drop the gloves, too. He probably wouldn't cost a whole bunch, either - maybe someone like Brian Boyle??
RF4L
Thu Aug 26 2010 9:21 am EST
RF4L -"a last place overall finish is realistic....' Not to mention a shell shocked Lundqvist!
NYStranger
Thu Aug 26 2010 9:04 am EST
RF4L - MITCHELL was a tough call given his concussion problems, but we need a D-man like him desperately...Is SUTTON still out there? .The Dynamic Duo of Doucheness of Sather and Torts are blowing it again with the weak kneed, prancing defense they will be icing---God, I'm so pumped to be watcing both Emminger and Redden along with Gilroy and DelZ on the defensve end!..The King is gonna be run every night and the slot and crease will be the sole dominion of the other team (except when Staal is out there)......And Bingo on that oaf Boogard..The guy will do absolutley nothing that will mpact what opposing forwards will do to the King and the crease..he will fight other goons, whoopdeefreakindoo...
Hospo
Thu Aug 26 2010 8:38 am EST
Interesting that although he remains unsigned (and training camp is fast approaching) there seems to be little consternation in the media (or out of the Rangers organization) about it. IMO, it's quite possible Staal has agreed in principal to a deal that pays him good dough and if put into play now, pushes the Rangers into cap stress. Could they be waiting for camp to open then put Redden on waivers and then make the signing official? I'm not clear on the cap and waiver rules, especially off-season vs in-season, so perhaps this makes no sense. The lack of noise over Staal remaining unsigned, however, doesn't make much sense, especially when you look at the Ranger backline and envision it without Staal. Yikes! Remove Staal from the mix and a last place overall finish is realistic....
RF4L
Thu Aug 26 2010 8:31 am EST
TDCHI- another great post.. Wallster ignore my earlier IK post to Ken.. its pales in comparison...
schneidw
Thu Aug 26 2010 8:29 am EST
RF4L- I couldnt agree more! Lundquvist is going to get run over nightly again.. its ridiculous that SATHER has not addressed this glaring hole.. it has existed since the NYRs were pairing Poti-Leetch together...
schneidw
Thu Aug 26 2010 8:29 am EST
Ken - Here's the point about KOVALCHUK. It's not that I wouldn't want to see him on the Rangers, it's that he solves absolutely NONE...I repeat...NONE of the problems the Rangers have right now. He's marginal, at best, defensively. He would be a puck-possession forward on a team that already has one(Gaborik)...He CAN'T play center. And he's going to cost AT LEAST $7 million...most likely more...for upward of the next decade...now think about it this way: Every team can sign up to THREE $7 million plus guys without seriously undercutting the rest of their roster. As it is, $21 million is more than a third of the cap going to three players, so basically those players need to be serving crucial roles...now on the Rangers, we have ONE guy who is taking that money and NOT serving a crucial role(DRURY). We have two others who are(LUNDQVIST, GABORIK)...Drury's contract, plus other high-end ones to ROZSIVAL and REDDEN are coming off the books within two seasons, which will allow the Rangers to either sign a UFA impact player(ideally, a top-flight center), pay a guy who is coming up through their own system, or trade for one on another team...If you sign IK, you wipe all three of those options off the table for at least FOUR YEARS(when the Lundqvist and Gaborik contracts come off the books). True, there is the argument that a wing-heavy team with Gaborik and IK as a one-two punch could pack a wallop. But I agree with the sentiment that this sort of lineup looks much better on paper than it does on the ice. Personally, I think that sort of situation would be an unmitigated disaster with the young defense...you'd have two offensively minded lines that would leave the defense out to dry with frequency...then possibly one line that gives them some support...and then another with a human pylon(Boogaard) on the left...Now there is something to be said for stealing away a player the Devils are high on. But something I don't think you're getting there is that this ISN'T Lamoriello's guy...in fact, Kovalchuk stands for just about everything that Sweet Lou abhors...Lam was told to get IK because the Devils NEED to fill seats in the Rock. Their attendance sucks, and it's because fair-weather fans would much rather take their chances on Broadway in NYC instead of downtown Newark...the Devils organization targeted IK BECAUSE he's an internationally acclaimed name who WILL fill seats, even if its with business clients marginally interested in the NHL. I'm sure through this whole contract debacle, Lamoriello has been quietly chuckling, secretly hoping that IK gets frustrated and bolts to the KHL, since he's going to seriously hamstring the team when it comes to signing PARISE and ZAJAC, who are the future of that club, but in the same breath, not players that will draw an international audience.
tdchi
Thu Aug 26 2010 8:27 am EST
RF4L/Ken/TDCHI etc: My personal view on DRURY is that he simply has a TON of miles on his legs.. the guy played tons of hard minutes in playoffs with the Avalanche, got ridden hard in Calgary, and then by Team USA... its a testament to how great of a player he WAS... the NYR organization ignored this obvious condition (there was a reason he was traded by Denver for Derek Morris beyond need of defensive help, Lacroix saw his play slipping); Now what is behind the Buffalo resurgence I am not sure? Somebody posted a premise that is the Sabres system and that UFA such as Drury, Briere, Kotalik, Cambell have all been uable to repeat their sucess elsewhere.. Interesting and repeatable trend if you ask me... Whatever the reason, I do think Drury has some trade value since his cap his has been depreciated but I doubt he is willing to move away from his Greenich CT lifestytle... unless LA or Denver calls.... which is doubtful
schneidw
Thu Aug 26 2010 8:17 am EST
Oh and having Boogaard watching from either the pressbox or the bench won't have much of impact on the crease-crashing. It might make a few players think twice, but the majority of guys who like to go to the net won't think twice about it. I suppose the best recourse involves the Rangers crashing the opposition's net with equal vigor. However, seems to me retialation of that nature isn't the Rangers style and hasn't been for way too many years. SIGH...............
RF4L
Thu Aug 26 2010 8:15 am EST
Willie Mitchell signed a 2 year $7,000,000 deal with the LA Kings yesterday, thereby removing from the availability list the last recognized physical d-man. The King no doubt will have to contend yet again with opposing forwards crashing his net while the purse-clutching Ranger defensemen flail wildly at the puck. Yet another reason to believe the Rangers will be challenging for a lottery spot vs a PO spot....
RF4L
Thu Aug 26 2010 8:06 am EST
with this cap, it's go for it or flounder. Guess who's fishing for flounder.10 year rebuild, give him 5 more again. .....bring on barnum and bailey........
stevielegs
Thu Aug 26 2010 8:06 am EST
Vic - By no means am I judging everything by stats. Of course, I'm also making a call on DRURY's on-ice play since I've seen PLENTY of him over the last five years(where I live, I have about a 50-50 chance of watching Sabres games)...Now gauging by your post, I don't think you read what I wrote previously about Drury, which as it happens, plays into the ongoing discussion about the Rangers tendency to sign perfectly decent players and then expect them to play roles that they are not suited for. You are right: Drury's production DOES come from his play on the PP. Like I said, he's a sneaky player that has a good eye for the game. With the man advantage, he has enough room that he can float through the zone, pick up passes or troll for loose pucks. Once he gets one, he's got decent enough hands to bury it...In Buffalo, he was a main cog in their PP...I cited these stats earlier: The two seasons on Buffalo when he topped 30 goals or more, he secured career lows in even strength TOI and career highs in power play TOI. He averaged 4:49 minutes in 2005-2006 and 4:25 minutes in 2006-2007. When he came to the Rangers, in 2007-2008, that dropped about 30 seconds. And then another 30 seconds in 2008-2009. Last year, he was averaging 2:03 minutes on the PP. That's 2:25 LESS than his career season...Meanwhile, his shorthanded TOI has increased markedly since Betts left. Even with Renney, Drury was used heavily as a second-line PKer...but under Torts, Drury is WAY underutilized and put in situations where his best offensive skills aren't tapped. Part of that has to do with the fact that the Rangers DON'T have a good two-way center and DO have such a weak defense. They basically NEED Drury to be a third-defender on the ice...Give this guy 4 minutes of PP time, and his production would rocket back up to at least where it was traditionally...On his defensive play...I simply don't know where you get that. Again, he's been consistent. What hasn't been consistent is the Ranger blueline, which we all agree was a train wreck last season...As for this 'invisibility' I again point to the fact that Tortorella, for whatever reason, has decided Dru is going to be his Betts. You put all but the upper echelon of players into a role where they are told to be defensive and their production is going to drop(or vice versa, in Bett's case: Ol' stone hands nearly doubled his output last year on the Flyers playing 18 games fewer)...bottom line: My argument isn't that Drury is worth $7 million; he's not, plain and simple. And I would be a fool to say he didn't have an off season last year...but the root of the problems many fans have with Drury rest with the jackass that signed him and the moron has-been coach who can't utilize his best skills on the ice.
tdchi
Thu Aug 26 2010 8:04 am EST
YORK18- Great post regarding the ridiculous contracts.. the NHL owners are idiots so much so that even a cap cannot protect them from themselves... At least back in the day, high term contracts never extended beyond 5 years.... paying a guy like Kovalchuck $10M/yr when he is 37YO is absurd.. the guy is gonna mail it in by age 32...Then what??
schneidw
Thu Aug 26 2010 8:00 am EST
KEN- Nobody is questioning the greatness of Kovalchuck... Its simply a matter of team chemistry and the cap.. In the first time since Herb Brooks has been in New York, the Rangers are building from within..something MOST of us have been clamoring for since 1997. Adding Kovalchuk is just another Fantasy Team ploy... we added our 27-YO top flight winger LAST year... SATHER needs to stay the course and try and knock off the last 3 albotross contracts and the Rangers will be in GREAT shape.. PATIENCE!!! This team is not that far away....
schneidw
Thu Aug 26 2010 7:37 am EST
Slegs: Again, if anyone here asked for $7mill & a nmc, and got it...... We all would sign... ;>)
mf
Thu Aug 26 2010 7:35 am EST
mf first that is probably what dreary was asking for, than genius agreed......he was selling a Volkswagen as a Rolls Royce, and genius bought it, with jimmy's daddy's money.
stevielegs
Thu Aug 26 2010 7:28 am EST
RE: the Drury Bashers: He was offered $7mill & a NMC and he signed it...... Everyone here would have signed it too...... Drury is who he is and can not carry the team by himself, very few can in team sports...... Sather sucks, has sucked, and will continue to suck...... The Rangers need to shake things up....Do something... If they sign IK, they could give him a 10 mill signing bonus, 10 year deal, graduate out the cap hit... Get rid of R&R, Christenson or White (we dont need both) Boyle is expendable (sorry Hospo) and resign Staal... I would give Drury a chance to play 2nd line center with IK (LW) & Cally on the RW.... Cally goes into the corners & Drury would pick up the garbage goals off of IK rebounds.... Our 1st & 2nd lines could avg 22 minutes each. AA could start the season on the 4th line between Boogard & Prust... He was comfortable between Shelly & Prust, so there would be "some" familiarity for him and should help him continue to build confidence....If he excels, he can be moved to 3rd line between Avery & Prust or Avery & Dubinsky....Dubinsky would start the season on the 3rd line at RW with Avery on the LW and whoever at center.... This would be a good 3rd line, with the players in a more proper role for their abilities.... Let Dubi play the way that got him here as York has mentioned. The defense is a whole nutha conversation..... So the opinion Du Jour is "go for Kovalchuk, while there is still an opportunity....... Sather, you Suck !
mf
Thu Aug 26 2010 6:55 am EST
Devils reworking Kovalchuk deal...................http://www.nypost.com/p/sports/devils/devs_reworking_kovalchuk_deal_3ucVdQbsZVkyicFglc7qZN
mf
Thu Aug 26 2010 6:31 am EST
kovaltine will end up a debbie, thanks again glennie gone fishing smoking cigars........kissing jimmy's ass, wasting his money.........step 1 get redden off the books........
stevielegs
Wed Aug 25 2010 7:51 pm EST
For the record (not that it means squat to anyone really) I'd take both of Campbell and Biere over Dreary. Campbell's younger and Biere at least puts up offense. In addition, neither are deemed clutch type leaders, meaning neither likely would be captain (I believe - and it's rarely discussed on here - part of the Dreary issue is the fact that his infamous leadership qualities played a huge role in him getting the C). That said, all 3 have stupid salaries and it's not coincidental that there seems to be less of those handed out as the UFA summers roll by. Even the stupidiest GMs eventually learn, believe it or not.
RF4L
Wed Aug 25 2010 4:40 pm EST
One more knock on Semin...........He slap fights like a little girl....lol. Let me just add that I am in no way comparing Richards now to Drury now.......just was pointing out that there have been inconsistencies throughout his career, he is not big, and aging....yes, he had a bounce back season last year but who is the real Brad Richards in 2011....2012? I'd be a little weary of committing big bucks and lots of years to him.....too much risk. Zero risk that I can see with Kovalchuk. Self made superstar in his prime. Do you want to play against him (in NJ) for the next decade?
Ken
Wed Aug 25 2010 4:34 pm EST
E.............Gotta disagree on Kovalchuk vs Richards/Semin. Those players are light years behind IK. Richards......age 30+, former overachiever, picked in 3rd round....He has scored 80+ points but twice, 2 of his last three seasons he averaged around 60 points. Scored 25 goals twice! 6'1", 198 pounds....Over 9 seasons, has missed some games. He looks a bit like Chris Drury in Buffalo one could argue.....................(I wouldn't go that far but there are warning signs)........Semin? One year younger than IK...30 pounds slighter....Former 13 OA pick has reached 80 points twice (giving him the 79 pt season;).....40 goals but ONCE! Has averaged 65 games played per NHL season and put up his good #s while playing with AO and the regular season world beating Caps powerhouse.................................Kovy...age 27, never had anybody to pad his stats over 8 NHL seasons, for which he averaged 78 games played per season...Former #1 OA pick, this 235 pound, big, durable forward with a bit of an edge to his game has scored 80+ points in 6 of the last 7 seasons. Last 7 seasons in a row....38 goals, 41 goals, 52 goals, 42 goals, 52 goals, 43 goals, 41 goals..........again, playing for ATL and finishing with the D-minded Devils. If anyone can get it done with a challenged supporting centerman, it's IK...........There's no comparison. Consistency, durabilty, size, mental toughness, skill set and flat out meeting of all expectations of him from the day he was drafted first.......There's your guy. You pay this man what you have to. He's young, proven and available. He should also be hungry for a cup I would imagine. What better place for IK than MSG?
Ken
Wed Aug 25 2010 4:10 pm EST
Hospo: quit pissing in my cheerios. I have enough problems. I am an f-in prophet. Thats all you need to know. All that came before, now, and after was stated for the record by me. Show some respect. No one here has my level of intuition.
E
Wed Aug 25 2010 2:17 pm EST
Look boys here is the reality, there are a couple of players who are worth 7 plus mil a season and none are currently playing in this league. Gretzky and Mario in their prime were worth that, the 93-94 season when Feds won the hart and the selke the guy won the selke scoring 120 points. Guys like that deserve that kind of pay, guys who are not one dimensional, Gretzky was a goal scorer and a playmaker, maro as well, you don't get those types of guys and those are the guys that should make 7 mil IMO not one dimensional players who don't make guys around them better.
York18
Wed Aug 25 2010 1:22 pm EST
E - And talking about or strategizing about next off season right now is less pointless than discussing/whining about past signings? Unless Sather makes moves based on what he reads here, pretty much anything said on the Wall is pointless, isn't it? Doesn't mean it can;t be fun, at times...
Hospo
Wed Aug 25 2010 12:44 pm EST
Look one thing. Market drives price. The Rangers wanted Drury. They didn't bid in a vacuum. And so in that market he was priced appropriately. The problem? He is not the guy that we needed and definitely not at that price. He cashed in on some extremely productive seasons with the Sabres. Heh look, it could have been worse, we could have signed Briere and Campbell. All those Sabre players made off like bandits and all have disappointed. So to me the bitching and moaning is pointless. The wall tends to be paralyzed with the debate on how to get rid of this guy. It just ain't gonna happen. That stated, I still contend that talent whether developed or acquired is the only way you win in the NHL today. Hard work will only get you so far. Now lets project forward. Next year's free agent class is far stronger. If I was looking at next year's class vs. Kovalchuk, I would rather sink hooks on Brad Richards AND Semin as opposed to Kovalchuk. I'd rather tender an offer on Stamkos. The signing of Frolov had officially closed the book on Kovalchuk by all accounts. he is a once in a generation player but with the talent pool expanding at the rate it is, once in a generation players are going to start to become once a summer players.
E
Wed Aug 25 2010 11:56 am EST
York- Yeah, sloppy wording. He is below avg on the back of a 6'4 forward, in general he is avg or maybe even above that.
Ola
Wed Aug 25 2010 11:49 am EST
I say 8-9 mil a year for Kova is a hell of a lot better than 7 mil a year for Drury. Desi is right in that the Rangers will never get a chance to draft that level of talent - it is up the the Genius to make room for him. Still if I was betting I say he ends up in NJ after they do some more re-working of the deal. The big problem I have with Rangers (mis)management is that they balk at paying a Kovalchuk big money, but throw good money after bad on the likes of R&R, Gomez and Drury. Then look back for the last 15 years and see how many similar bad contracts were handed out without batting an eye. I makes Rangers fans feel that Dolan has no desire to build a winner, even if he understands that it would make him even richer. Just put in minimal effort and keep charging more for tickets. That a boy Jimmy!!
NYStranger
Wed Aug 25 2010 11:02 am EST
RF4L.......And Drury has value (I believe) because he can bring a much needed ingredient to the right team. I think he could be traded. We'd have to take salary back, but maybe one year or maybe a couple $M less, or maybe we could trade that guy............desi.........Absolutely man. You know what you are getting in Kovalchuk. This is not a square peg that the NYR will try to pound into a round hole. He's the real deal. In 1-2 years, Kovy, Grachev, Kreider down the left? Have Frolov and Dubi in the mix on the left side as well. Trade 1-2 for a D-man. THIS is a way to make the past drafts (productive, yet still mediocre....ie: no elite talent) count. Kreider and Grachev don't have to magically become 1st line players. If Frolov can play right wing, Calli can play 3rd line.........Makes the team so much deeper and better. Christensen or Prospal look pretty OK playing with Gabby/Kovy/Frolov on the wings......There would be so much more talent with just that one move. A Dubinsky looks great on the 3rd line! The PP is flat out scary! Aquire a #1 center (or maybe AA or Stepan leap up) and you've got a great team with a good young core...........I don't know of any one player in the NHL (who would ever be available in his prime) who could do that like Ilya Kovalchuk..............AND, I don't want him playing in NJ for the next 7-8 years. Just do it and we have hockey in NY again!
Ken
Wed Aug 25 2010 10:22 am EST
TD: You can judge everything by stats if you like. I don't. Stats are one aspect that I take into account. Even then, you can dissect stats to see some things that are not always obvious on the surface. For instance, DRURY's first year with the Rangers he scored 58 points but exactly half of them were scored on the PP. At even strength playing as a top 2 Center he score 29 points on the season (13 goals and 14 assists) in an 82 game season. He was good defensively but he was not much of a factor in the offensive end at even strength. That is why I called his season marginal and definitely not worth anywhere near $7Mil per season. After that his defensive play dropped off. He is still good defensively as a PK specialist but he no longer was good defensively in the other 2/3rds of the ice. Looking at his numbers for the next season he was actually statistically better at even strength even though he scored 2 less points overall. Unfortunately he was invisible on most nights. He isn't an impact player and on a team that is devoid of top 2 Center talent his game in the offensive zone has deteriorated to the point where he can't even win a top 2 Center spot. So yes, if I could have either of those guys at that money or DRURY at the same money I would take them over him because they are better suited to play the 3rd line role that DRURY is playing.
Vic
Wed Aug 25 2010 10:19 am EST
Ken - if Drury was brought in with the expectation of him repeating what he did in Buffalo then you can't say the expectation was for him to be a #1 or 2 center because he played left wing in Buffalo. It's sort of like asking a Podiatrist to work on a Cardiology problem. They are both doctors and both went to med school but each has his own specialty and will not do such a good job in the others place and shouldn't be expected to. Just like we paid Holik $9 mil a year and somehow expected that to turn him into a number one center when all he ever was in his career was a defensive minded 3rd line center.
Danylo Halytskyj
Wed Aug 25 2010 10:16 am EST
Ken: Yeah that 'he's won everywhere he's gone' mantra about Dreary is pretty funny. Guess it needs to be updated to 'he's won everywhere he's gone until he went to New York'! The man's done squat for this team when you consider what's he paid and what that salary should be bringing to the club.
RF4L
Wed Aug 25 2010 9:55 am EST
know what Ken your right sign Kovalchuck, he is not the typical Ranger player who we sign at the age of 32 or older. He in his prime at the age of 27. This is a talent that is not available at this age. I know we do not have a center to pass the puck but one less piece of the puzzle & since I know the Rangers with Hank & Gabby (barring injuries) would never be a bottom 3 team we will not have a chance at a player of this talent. Why be mediocre sign Kovy & be a little above mediocre. To all the old timers out there we will never have a top pick so screw it & sign Kovy. At least a little excitement before "I die in peace".
desi04
Wed Aug 25 2010 9:42 am EST
tdchi....On Drury, I would say he definitely has been "sub-par" since coming to the NYR simply because he was brought here and paid by the NYR to give them what he gave the Sabres the year before. The NYR and their fans expected that and Drury knew it when he took the $$$. While what he has done for the NYR has been acceptable (if $$$ is out of the assessment), Drury has been a bust on Broadway as a go to guy for the team. That is why he is here making $7M, he is supposed to be "the guy." A 1st-2nd line center.........score like one, AND lead the team to success. You always hear "Drury is a winner" and "He has won everywhere he has gone," etc. That's what he's getting the big bucks for. Stats....yes but also a bit of the "it" factor. The "Messier" factor. He's supposed to lead the NYR to success and he's supposed to score. He knows that. I'm sure he himself is not at all happy with his PK, shotblocking, and 50 points contribution while the NYR happlessly flounder under his leadership. Drury got old fast and he has been a bust in NY.
Ken
Wed Aug 25 2010 9:30 am EST
tdchi.........I could care less about Kovalchuk's cap hit. I know what I'm I'm getting in him........Bona-fide top 5 sniper, 1st line, #1OA elite talent, at 27 years of age. He makes the team immediately much better with his consistent 40-50 goals per season. I don't get how you can defend Drury's 20 goals and 50 points, saying that is so much more than a 3rd liner, while diminishing what Kovalchuk brings to the table. At $9M, his cap hit would only be $2M more than Drurys!............Plus, Lamoriello wants him bad. That in itself tells me he's worth it because Lou has a great track record AND........taking Kovy away from a division rival and putting him on our club is a no-brainer..........................This is not a "same old big contract to an aging overpaid, underperforming vet" move. Not even close. Kovalchuk is the kind of guy we desperately need and will never get the chance to draft. Putting him there with Gaborik on the same team means you never have to aquire and waste a top pick on a scoring winger for a long time. You draft a franchise defenseman and a 1st line center (get one through trade or FA?) and you are immediately looking good.........All of a sudden, all the 2-3rd round picks fill in nicely on the 2-4th lines and all is good.................Ask Hank if he could use 40-50 goals per season for the next 5 years or if he feels they can get it done from within. This is a big opportunity for the NYR. Guys like IK don't become available very often before the age of 32-35. What do we have to lose??? Just do it.
Ken
Wed Aug 25 2010 9:04 am EST
Vic - You would take Larose or Draper over Drury, even IF Drury was making $1.75 million?!?Am I getting this right?!? REALLY?!? And PLEASE do explain what the hell is "subpar" about a 58-point season...you've just about left me speechless with that one...look...hate Sather for the contract. But to say this guy has been 'subpar' since he's gotten to NY is just plain out and out BS.
tdchi
Wed Aug 25 2010 8:28 am EST
If Carmelo Anthony becomes a free agent next July, the Knicks might have to contend with Houston -- and Texas' lack of a state income tax. ................. LeBron James, when he signed with the Heat, chose to play in a state -- Florida -- without a state income tax. ................ Read more: http://www.nypost.com/p/sports/knicks/state_tax_may_cost_knicks_shot_at_gWkBoCV3lWVV72urVcLP6H#ixzz0xckh5WJY
mf
Wed Aug 25 2010 8:24 am EST
NHL: Devils' Kovalchuk deal a no-go ............. http://www.nypost.com/p/sports/devils/nhl_kovalchuk_deal_no_go_KFR7znSlKEoNvZeWOn9kKI
mf
Wed Aug 25 2010 7:50 am EST
Ola, Drury is average in his own end, not below average. You are trying to prove a point, but you are making him less than he really is. He is good in his own end at anticipating passes and cutting off the lane. He's good at backing up the D when they are along the boards on when to stay between the net and the boards and when to cut in and either help or cut off the pass etc.
York18
Wed Aug 25 2010 7:02 am EST
TD: Actually, at $1.75 Mil I'd rather have DRAPER or LAROSE. DRURY had a marginal year his first year and has been a sub-par player since. DRURY's game has declined rapidly. He was never worth $7Mil but he used to be an effective player under certain circumstances. He isn't any more. He has become a 3rd liner and PK specialist.
Vic
Wed Aug 25 2010 6:18 am EST
the chicken or the egg, what came first the way drury played or how the coach used him. 3 years the guy has not lived up to Captain Clutch, instead it's Crutch. Maybe NYC is not for him, Renney and Talkie couldn't get him to come close to earning his pay, even with his bs his intangibles. He's just another cap blocker holding this team's progress back. But them's the breaks, in satherland. You win some and lose a lot more. ....the guy is not going to rebound to a 7mil player. .....nor is redden nor rozival...........over 18 mil blocking roster spots and cap room to trade for or sign 2-3 much better additions. ...maybe Richards and Kovaltine, with Gaborik & Lundqvist ..........for the same or less $$$$$$$$$$$$$$....that's 4 guys to build a TEAM around, add 1 top D and they'd be there. .....fantasy.............
stevielegs
Wed Aug 25 2010 5:28 am EST
schizaman: http://www.snyrangersblog.com/2010/08/23/buzz-rangers-to-unveil-new-jerseys-in-november/
TrueBlue10
Wed Aug 25 2010 5:28 am EST
schizaman - the Rangers will have a new third jersey this season which they'll reportedly unveil in November
Gibbo
Wed Aug 25 2010 1:41 am EST
The thing with Drury is that there are many players in this league who are very highly regarded but just like Drury needs to be put in perfect environment for them inorder to succed. I think its AMAZING that more GM's and experts don't detect that. Goals are seen as goals and assists are seen as assists -- and there are noting else to value a player on other then on his output. Well, if thats a stance people want to take, I guess arguments can be made both ways. BUT THE PROBLEM IS WHEN A GM OF ANOTHER TEAM THINKS HE CAN SIGN THAT PLAYER AND GET THE SAME OUTPUT. I remember a discussion I heard on TSN I think, or CBC, like 5 years ago about Cheechoo vs Gagne. Experts actually argued that Cheech was better then Gagne, to me that was insane. One is like 10x the hockeyplayer the other is.
Ola
Wed Aug 25 2010 1:36 am EST
Hospo- I kind of agree, for a long time people justified Drury, to a extent at least, with him being so great defensively. He is not. It was just incorrect. At 5'11, and not that darn strong for his size either, he is no match for bigger forwards down low in our end. Thats not all what defense is about, you play defense all the way from you loose the puck up ice and Drury is good at blocking shots et c. Most lines Drury have been on have spent a lot of time in their own end, Drury is below avg at getting the puck up ice, and Drury is below avg at getting the puck out of his own zone. He is good at preventing the puck from getting into our end. In the end, the result is to be expected. Is Drury worthless then? No, he have another ability. He is decent at distrubuting the puck in the attacking zone, he is very adjustable, probably one of his biggest strengths is his SHOOT.
Ola
Tue Aug 24 2010 11:07 pm EST
Vic - So Drury's worth $1.75 million? Really? Come on now. So he's a center on par with Chad Larose, Kris Draper and Jay McClement? Since those are the forwards you're lumping him in with if you really think he's worth that little...Mind you, this is a guy who has averaged 23 goals a year over an 11-year career. Out of those 11 seasons, he's scored 50 points or more eight times; 20 goals or more NINE times...Hospo - If I'm over-analyzing, you're hyper-generalizing. You're saying a guy who has been a model of consistency through out his career who has ONE BAD SEASON(which happened to coincide with a concussion and very bad coach that hasn't a clue how to utilize the best skills of his players) is a third liner. Most teams could only dream of having a guy who averages 57 points a year on their third line. Is Drury overpaid? YES. Is is a first-line center? NO. But the guy shows up and does his job, which is more than some Rangers in the past and present...Ken - While I'm all for seeing guys like STEPAN and McDONAGH play full-time roles in the NHL next year, I also realize very few players make the full leap into 82-game play at the best level in the world without some serious jet lag. Regardless, I don't believe Drury or Prospal or Avery is holding anyone back. If anything, it's dreck like Christensen and White that are holding guys back. But I don't even think that's the case really...and on IK...don't you realize you're advocating for the same type of contract that has killed this team in the past? Kovalchuk's contract could ultimately make Drury's look like a deal. This is a guy who has won and done NOTHING other than pot goals for a team that has never made it past the first round of the playoffs...and his cap hit is going to be in the $9 million range when all is said and done(hence why the Devils haven't thrown another offer at him yet). Still, he fixes nothing in the center and nothing on D. I get what you're saying about splitting the two on separate lines, but I'm not convinced it would work any better than what the Rangers are throwing out there right now. In fact, it might be even a bit worse, since IK doesn't play a team game, and that's the only way the 2010-2011 Rangers make a serious run next season.
tdchi
Tue Aug 24 2010 10:35 pm EST
Any1 hear or see anythingg about the rangers gettin new jerseys this year I saw a tid bit on espn rumors but im not an insider so.....
schizaman
Tue Aug 24 2010 9:53 pm EST
HOSPO: I totally agree. I don't care how good of a third liner and penalty killer he is. You cannot pay a guy 4 times what he is worth. You cannot pay a 3rd line / penalty killer 1/8th of the Cap.
Vic
Tue Aug 24 2010 8:57 pm EST
Devils didn't submit new Kovalchuk contract to NHL: reports..........http://www.nypost.com/p/blogs/nhlblog/devils_didn_submit_new_kovalchuk_OQXdZ7R4sfzRsxif1fAf4O
mf
Tue Aug 24 2010 7:04 pm EST
Hospo..........I agree that Drury sucks as anything more than a 3rd liner. I don't think he ever sets a bad example on the ice though. He's everything you could want from a 3rd liner and PKer. Sather set the bad example by giving him that contract. Actually, he reinforced the bad examples of contracts he had set a long, long time ago....................I have no problem with Chris Drury as a hockey player. In fact, I like the guy a lot. But, as a fan of the NYR, he cannot play here like he does for $7M. He has to go. Sather's job to make it happen.
Ken
Tue Aug 24 2010 6:35 pm EST
Man, some of you guys just overanalyze and deal with too many shades of gray...Basically. drury sucks as anything more then a 3rd liner..simple as that...Even at that, he sets a woeful example for the team by collecting 7 mill a year and mostly failing to do anything..
Hospo
Tue Aug 24 2010 5:02 pm EST
mf.....it's Sather's job to find a way out from under the Drury contract. It was his mistake and it's his responsibility to fix it.........td and others........td, you said you don't get why I would want to do that but I already explained that I would want a Todd White and a Christensen centering the top lines because we wouldn't be much better with Drury and Prospal, not better enough to make any difference. Give AA and Stepan a real chance to force White or Christensen out of a job! With Drury and Prospal there, they don't play, and no progress is made towards the future. By removing the vets, you officially pull the plug on this never ending Frankenstein project and get a fresh start. If the team faulters, it's still positive because we get a top draft pick, trade for another, and put all this Sather crap in the past! If the team faulters with Drury and Prospal.........then here we are again next year scratching our asses again with no hope and no plan...........You want to make the POs? Then go the other way! Get Redden and one other salary outta here and bring in Ilya Kovalchuk!!! Prospal can certainly look pretty good centering Kovalchuk and Gaborik or split them and put Calli and Frolov with either........Cover your weakness at center by putting the scariest wingers in the game out there! We try to counter OV with two guys....We counter Pitt's centers with Lundquist and Staal/G-man, then see if they can answer for a winger that can check either Gaborik or Kovalchuk? With our goalie, we'd have a 3-6 seeded team in the east if we picked up a good D-man, maybe better? To "go for it" with guys like Drury, Prospal, Redden and Rosival is suicidal and the results are very predictable so why do it? Take action Sather. Any action, one way or the other. I just want some reason to care and watch a NYR hockey game this year........Please don't say "patience." Please don't. There is nothing here yet to just sit and wait and be "patient" for. If we are going young, there is much work to do. If we are going for it now, your man is still available......or, we can watch him kick our asses from across the river for the next 5-8 years......Fish or cut bait Sather!!! No more of this half-ass BS. If the Knicks can clean the roster and start over, so can we. Just choose already. This is becoming unbearable.
Ken
Tue Aug 24 2010 4:51 pm EST
stevie - that's kind of my point: I didn't see ANY problem with Drury during the Olympics(although I also don't recall him getting much ice-time either). Also, I don't see any real significant drop in the caliber of his play. It's not like he's dogging shifts or is slowing down...I guess you could say his hands aren't what they used to be...but that never was his game. He was more of a sneaky little bastard that would cruise in front of the net at the right moment and rip off a rebound shot(case in point: v. the Rangers in the 2007 POs). It's not like he was ever dazzling with his stick-handling...or blinding with his speed...just an all-around solid player with great hockey instincts and a will to win. In fact, Drury is the type of guy I could see playing for another five or six seasons without much drop in his level of play...what fans have to ask themselves is whether they don't like Drury because of his play or because he's getting paid $7 million...The way I look at Drury is that he's a consummate team player. Sure he's overpaid. But he brings intangibles to the ice that make him worth at least two-thirds of that contract, maybe more. And if Torts learned how to utilize him on the PP, I bet you'd see his numbers go right back up to 20 goals and 50 points, which is exactly what his career has dictated.
tdchi
Tue Aug 24 2010 2:54 pm EST
td there seems to be many reasons for Drury's numbers declining, and probably most reasoms are valid. I think he's just declining with age, plus the rest hasn't helped. He's be better off somewhere else. He woke up in the Olympics, and came back to more of the same with plenty of excuses / reasons.
stevielegs
Tue Aug 24 2010 2:42 pm EST
As I suspected(and as Dany alluded), there's a statistical correlation between Drury's marked drop in production and his use on the ice. The two seasons on Buffalo when he topped 30 goals or more, he secured career lows in even strength TOI and career highs in power play TOI. He averaged 4:49 minutes in 2005-2006 and 4:25 minutes in 2006-2007. When he came to the Rangers, in 2007-2008, that dropped about 30 seconds. And the another 30 seconds in 2008-2009. Last year, he was averaging 2:03 minutes. That's 2:25 LESS than his career season. Meanwhile, his shorthanded time took a boost last season from 2:25 in 2009 to 3:00 in 2010. So do the math folks: You take a garbage-goal guy like Drury, who is a small-stature player that thrives when the opposition is a man down and he has room to skate...then factor in the fact that the Rangers have never seemed too willing to give him first-line minutes on the PP...then factor in the fact that he basically was the center to take up the slack created when Blair Betts wasn't resigned...Well...it's a no-brainer that his production is going to go down. I don't buy this BS that his production is dropping because of his age. For f@ck's sake, he JUST turned 34...It's not like he's turning 40. Might I remind you, Nylander was 34 when he landed a career-best 81 points with the Rangers...Certainly, I don't see Dru ever doing that. But if the human firecracker would USE the guy the way he's been used all his career, maybe he'd get a bit more production out of him. Then again, perhaps that's not what he wants from Drury. Did anyone ever mull that? If you want something to criticize about Drury, criticize his contract, which is god-aweful. I've thought that since day one. But don't criticize the player. He's doing everything he's done all career long. It's not his fault the team has a moron coach who doesn't have a clue how and in what ways to employ the talent that he does have...and besides...like I said earlier...if the team(any team)wants Drury off the books, the cost is $3.1 million in 2011 and $1.1 million in 2012. Really, in the grand scheme of things, that's chump change...especially if Redden is gone, as so many have predicted.
tdchi
Tue Aug 24 2010 2:13 pm EST
Or maybe 20-22 goals are more realistic. It all comes down to him being hot for a while. Getting some PP time.
Ola
Tue Aug 24 2010 2:12 pm EST
Drury scored 14 goals last season, and I could easily see him score around 25 goals next season. Its so few goals we are talking about. Thats a pretty big increase. My take on Drury is that he basically is the same player now as he was for Buffalo. Stick him in a POSITION like he was in Buffalo, and I think we could expect him to score 30 goals again. Couple in that hockeyplayer can get darn hot at times too, think Prucha in his rookie year, and you got the explanation for why Drury scored 37 that year (along with the first year after the lockout, with all the PP's, were a very high scoring season). Its not harder then that. Chris Drury have only twice in his career scored more then 25 goals...
Ola
Tue Aug 24 2010 12:13 pm EST
Tortorella had Drury on the 4th at some pont last season. He's stuck with him, until otherwise reported. Fro-loaf just might do a Kotalik. Sather has a knack for doing hoilks with vets, alias putting them in the wrong role. Some day the brain rust will use guys to their strenghts on the proper line ....... .
stevielegs
Tue Aug 24 2010 12:03 pm EST
WILDCARD: and they thought Barry Beck wouldn't shoot the puck. Just wait and see how maddeningly indecisive Frolov can be. That man is going to get along great with Tortorella who is going to beat him to death. But then again, Tortorella might just be that ideal disciplinarian that will whip Frolov into the player he should be. Or reference, Keenan v. Kovalev.
E
Tue Aug 24 2010 11:58 am EST
Another factor that is going to dictate Drury's position on the roster is Anisimov. As the season wore on, AA seemed to settle more and more into a 2-way role. I am expecting that trend to continue. Sophomore jinx aside I think it is not outside the realm of reality that Drury may find himself passed by on the depth chart. And this would be a good thing and something that I am hoping happens. Ultimately, if we were playing production vs. dollars Drury at $5m (cap hit number please?) on the third line is something I could live with. After all, even though we aren't on the hook for it but Avery at $4m? Drury is surely worth $5m. So I guess as I am looking at this further and knowing the Rangers are not 1-2 moves away from being a contender I am not certain that I see the need to move Drury at all. 2-years from now, we can walk away from Drury completely or negotiate a contract more palatable. And so when I turn the prism this way (which may be exactly how management is thinking) Drury while expensive might be fitting the bill perfectly until the adequate replacement emerges or they need to change directions. But the dark side is what keeps getting noticed in that many feel that his albatross contract is holding the Rangers down from getting a top-billed talent. But I think many teams in the NHL have albatross contracts they wish that they could shed the day before yesterday. (DiPietro, Briere, Vinny L, Gomez, Nylander, Horcoff, Olesz, Cheechoo, and Liles). I tend to believe Sather when he says that he is committed to building from within. I only question if he is holding a good enough hand to build from within. I have serious reservations about that.
E
Tue Aug 24 2010 11:20 am EST
Danylo Halytskyj: Good point on Frolov, I forgot about him...I guess Drury will only see 2nd PP unit time...of course, i dont know who will make up the 2nd PP unit, so he may see some time with it, and may get some decent numbers....but Frolov does hurt his ability to get more PP ice time and thus, more goals.
Wildcard
Tue Aug 24 2010 10:30 am EST
E - Good take ..Drury, through his career, was a decent 2nd center and did a bit of everything and alot of the little things..But at his age now and the way the game is played now, the best the Rangers could expect out of him would be a bottom tier 2nd center or a good 3rd line center...I could live with the latter...Unfortuatnetly, the Rangers have far from the ideal candidates for the 1st and 2nd C positions..which more then likely means Drury won't be used where he can help the team most...And all this is sather and Torts's fault..
Hospo
Tue Aug 24 2010 10:29 am EST
I don't see Drury getting more PP time this season with the acquisition of Frolov.
Danylo Halytskyj
Tue Aug 24 2010 10:28 am EST
With our situation at center I do not see Drury moved to wing. Though with Torts anything is possible. The only way Drury play wing is if Prospal and Dubi become the top two centers. I could see Torts trying Frolov/Prospal/Gabby and Drury/Dubi/Cally then you would have Avery/AA/Hobbit and Boogard/Boyle/Prust.
Danylo Halytskyj
Tue Aug 24 2010 10:26 am EST
Also on Drury, i think he will get 20 goals, but would expect 12 or 13 to be on the PP, from the circle or in close, off of rebounds. I dont expect much offensive output from him 5 on 5. So really, unless Torts uses him properly, he wont be able to improve on his output...in Drury's defense, last year Torts leaned on him for his defensive game, and he got less time on the ice for offensive chances, he got very little PP time with the top unit.
Wildcard
Tue Aug 24 2010 10:22 am EST
DRURY: I have said it before. Last year was his worst year...I think he can have a better year this year...not a year like he had in BUF, but a better year. ALOT will depend on what Torts asks him to do. If he gets more PP time as a wing, and depending on what line he palys on 5 on 5, if he palys wing or center, well alot of things will afect his play. Anyway, I think he is able to be a 20 goal, 30 assist guy again. Also, we cant forget how much he ads to the PK, and he is part of the "team defense" so he is important in that way. But again, I think he has one or two years of close to 20 and 30 left in him.
Wildcard
Tue Aug 24 2010 9:58 am EST
I don't think we'll be seeing much of an offensive improvement from Drury this year or next. Let's face it he is 34 and not getting younger. His body takes a lot of abuse from blocking shots and this will only serve to slow him down further. He is also almost always the defensive presence on his line. In Buffalo he was part of a high flying team that controlled the puck most of the game. He also played the wing there and had fewer defensive responsibilities than he does now. Taking these factors into account I think it is safe to say his 30 goal seasons are not going to return. I think 20-25 if all the stars align are the most we will ever see from him again but unless he is first line center for most of the season I doubt that he hits 20 again here.
Danylo Halytskyj
Tue Aug 24 2010 9:37 am EST
The one thing that I find interesting about Drury is that people tend to forget that Drury has traditionally been a much better player then he was this past season. If you put his cap killing salary to the side and ask yourself whether last season was an aberration or was two season's ago the high water mark where Drury is going to continue the slide backwards. Then there is the aberration argument. Drury is going to bounce back... yada... yada... yada. I am on the fence regarding this. I drop the salary argument because basically, we are stuck with him and by ALL indications, he simply is going to be here. The Rangers are married to him. There are very little reasonable scenarios if any that un-fudges this situation. I think that Drury can be the player he was again. I think he should be the player he was. And again, while I would never consider him a superstar he should be a solid second line center. That doesn't mean he can.
E
Tue Aug 24 2010 9:35 am EST
RF4L - Yep, Drury sucks, Sather sucks, the entire group of centers suck....Heck, our centers and D-men are bad enogh as is but just think, we are one injury to the still inconsistent AA from likely having top 4 centers of Christensem, White, Drury and Boytano.......Just like they are one inuury away form Staal to having a D of Giraridi, Redden,Roszy,DelZ,Emminger and Gilroy..What a clusterfuck..
Hospo
Tue Aug 24 2010 9:34 am EST
Ola - knew that...But I'm not one for early mornings...what I meant to say was that he's still on the Caps payroll...not the cap.
tdchi
Tue Aug 24 2010 8:03 am EST
Dreary being the top center on this club is arguable but for me highlights perfectly why this team will likely being challenging for a lottery pick as opposed to a PO spot. OMG, a 14 goal guy is the top center? Gawd, Sather SUCKS!
RF4L
Tue Aug 24 2010 7:31 am EST
tdchi- Nyls contract did NOT count against the caps cap while Nyls was loaned to Europe. http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2009/dec/14/capitals-nylander-is-loaned-to-ahl/
Ola
Tue Aug 24 2010 7:30 am EST
try to get a three way deal where Richards comes here and Drury goes byebye to one of those teams that so badly want his type of leadership and centering abilities. Get Redden and Rozival to play anywhere else, and then make a TEAM. But gm genius and his boy i wonder coach would still be obstacles, along with the owner's son. But those 3 have to go to really change this TEAM culture. It's not much different than when people wanted the Jagr group gone. Except that group created excitement, this group are on Valium and put you to sleep.
stevielegs
Tue Aug 24 2010 7:17 am EST
from June on how to win?,,,,,,, http://www.tsn.ca/story/?id=324215
stevielegs
Tue Aug 24 2010 7:11 am EST
at some point Lundqvist has or will think it would be better to go across the Hudson, and play for the debbies especially if Kovatine gets signed. Not that the genius would accommodate him. But they have more of a shot at getting to the finals than the NYR almost any year. The difference, a system and the gm. And the King would probably win the Vezina.
stevielegs
Tue Aug 24 2010 7:01 am EST
Whoa...before we start formulating trade partners for DRURY, someone PLEASE explain WTF the team is going to do with his cap hit? Like it or not, Drury is probably the top center on a team that bereft of decent centers. There is NO reason to trade him, unless its a precursor to bringing in a guy who is going to solve the issue at center for the next four years. And frankly, I can't see a way that happens...If the idea is to ditch Drury and take another stab at KOVALCHUK, it's a waste of goddamn time...or worse yet, it's trading one 'headache' for another. I use quotes for 'headache' because people simply don't see how Drury contributes on this team. And trust me, he contributes. He had an off-year last season by all standards, and in part that was related to his increased time on the PK, of which he's an integral part BTW...so to sum it up, you move Drury to sign IK and you A. end up even WEAKER at center; B. end up gutting what is still among the league's top PK units. C. end up with a $10 million per contract on the books for a guy who essentially plays the SAME GAME that Gaborik does...I have no doubt that if Drury WAS on the market, there would be a team to make a pitch for him...he's not the anchor you guys make him out to be. For example, both the Kings and the Avalanche(two teams often mentioned in connection with Drury) could fit him under the cap this season without even coming close to the ceiling. And both teams could actually USE a player of Drury's ilk. If they acquired him THIS FALL, they could buy him out next summer(or trade him to a team that had even greater cap space) for a one-year hit of $3.3 million and a second year hit of $1.6 million(a figure that would be his actual cost over two years)...but again...if you do ANY of that, you have to identify WHY you'd do that at the beginning of the season, or even the deadline. Why? And the only acceptable reason would be to bring in a BETTER, justified first-line center...OLA - While I do recall there being an NHLer who was threatening to bolt to the KHL instead of finishing out his contract in the AHL(I think it was SATAN), NYLANDER was demoted to the Red Wings AHL affiliate, then 'loaned' to a Finnish team . He's still getting paid by the Caps and is still on Washington's cap hit...Look, what I got from Ken's post is that he's offering a way in which the Rangers would be a less competitive team with more youth infused into the lineup and a lot of cap space(presumably to sign a UFA next summer or IK this fall). I've countered by saying this simply isn't what NHL teams do going into the season...besides...why in god's green earth would anyone trade PROSPAL, who makes $1 million base salary with a possible bonus hit up to $2.2 million, so that Todd WHITE, who makes a base salary of $2.3 million, can play pivot? There are plenty of people who aren't even sure if White can skate at the NHL level anymore. Prospal, OTOH, was the second leading scorer on the Rangers last season with 58 points...oh and he's YOUNGER than White too!! White has always been a "Rucchin" type player in my estimation. He's a 30-point player who occasionally lucks out by earning his way onto a top line(see:His 2008 season). There's a reason we got him for RISSMILLER and BRASHEAR. In fact, I think that says it all very nicely. Look at how productive those players were for the Rangers. Well, the Thrashers looked at White in the same or worse light...end of story. And don't even get me started on CHRISTENSEN. He should have never been resigned. Period.
tdchi
Tue Aug 24 2010 1:10 am EST
ALTERNATIVE 3 - We keep Drury next season too. Counts on that he will resign here in NY for say around 3m per; and in 2012-2013 actually gets a bang for the buck and some stability in the room. 2012-2013 is a awful long time away, no doubt. Its not a "I want to throw my self infront of a train"-option, but its hardly a good option either...
Ola
Tue Aug 24 2010 1:08 am EST
There are two ways to get rid of Drury. 1. The Nylander Option. You tell Drury that he can do whatever he wants, but one thing is sure, he will NEVER play for the NYR again. He can sit in stands in the NHL, collect 7m per, and watch us play. He can got to HFD and for conditionstints, but only if he himself wants it. Drury will make 13m the coming two years. He was a US Olympian for a reason, and he have some value on the open market for sure. Either he don't play a game for 2 years and destroys his career or he don't show up for practise and we can break his contract, Drury becomes a UFA and can sign anywhere. This is a very DIRTY option. The Caps pulled it on Nyls, I don't think its a good option for us to pull on Drury. ALTERNATIVE 2. We move Drury and get salary back, but a salary without a NMC. To do this we need to find a dancepartner, something that won't be easy, and we need to find a team that Drury will accept to go to, which won't be easy if not impossible, what do I know. But say that we are out of the PO race come deadlinetime, Drury is the CAPTAIN of this team and knowing him he would take a lot of blame. Drury is to make 5m next year. Say ONE team in this league have like a D that is due to make 3m per for two years, with no NMC, who they want to get rid of. That salary matches Drurys salary. If that team isn't up against the cap, its a zero sum trade for them. Maybe Drury would accept a trade, his stint in NY would have been a mess and he is a proud guy, maybe a team would take him straight up for a worthless player due to make 2y x 3m.
Ola
Tue Aug 24 2010 12:04 am EST
Okay, reality check. Even if a team was willing to take any of the guys mentioned every few posts as the only players keeping us from being happy Ranger fans (Redden, Drury, Rozy, insert name here) there is no way we are going to get just "mid-round picks" back. Look at the White trade. We got rid of our dreck by taking back a different sort of dreck. Show me one trade in the NHL in the past few years that any team took on a large salary without getting back a good amount of salary back. It isn't happening. Sather sucks, but a trade of Kotalik and Higgins for Joikinin, Prust is as close as we are getting to moving heavy contracts without long term impact on our cap (A brilliant move, yes, but correcting mistakes doesn't excuse the original mistake).
ColoradoMark
Mon Aug 23 2010 9:44 pm EST
OMG, Dreary is going NOWHERE. No one wants a $7,000,000 third line 14 goal scorer and his silly NMC means the Rangers cannot even waive him.
RF4L
Mon Aug 23 2010 8:21 pm EST
Ken: How do you plan to move Drury ??? Because if you can get him to accept a trade, many options open up cap-wise. IE: Drury gone, Rozi traded, Redden to the AHL, voila, 18.5 mill in cap space....
mf
Mon Aug 23 2010 7:09 pm EST
York18: douche? Seriously? Oh come now. Never said you were the sole cause, BUT you do have your hands in it the majority of the time. You are not playing nice. I think you need a time out. I don't need to get over myself. You need to get over the belief that you think I have such a high belief in myself that it makes you all the more enchanting when you endlessly try to smack me or anyone else down.
E
Mon Aug 23 2010 7:06 pm EST
Ilya........But if you KEEP Drury, Avery, Prospal, and Redden and Rosy in front of Hank, does that make it better? Or, does it make it worse? For Hank and the NYR both short and long term......I don't see how keeping these guys helps. They are an out of the POs team either way so play the kids! Start focusing on 2 years from now, just like the Knicks did. No guarantees, but can it possibly be worse than sitting with this roster and doing nothing? Let Christensen and White shoulder the burden until AA or Stepan play them out of town. Trade Frolov or Dubi at the deadline or as soon as Grachev plays into the top two lines. This team needs to cut bait and start worrying about the future because the present is clearly f*cked! Why go through this painful charade of the 2010-2011 and 2011-1012 seasons until the horrible contracts expire? This will not appease the fans or Hank either. I don't think Lundquist is a stupid man. He knows what this season will be. He needs hope too or he will leave........along with Staal, etc.
Ken
Mon Aug 23 2010 6:57 pm EST
I would amend your statement to Gaborik or Hank not and. If Gabby goes down hank can stand on his head all he likes but we will score about 2 a game. If Hank goes down Gabby can score 80 and we still probably will fall short.
Danylo Halytskyj
Mon Aug 23 2010 6:42 pm EST
Ken – first of all, I think a true optimist would be saying this team will climb to six, maybe five in the east. Middle of the road is 10-through-seven. Anything less than that is pessimistic, IMO...Now...your thinking behind Kovalchuck and the Rangers is what got them in this mess to begin with: Going after guys who demand high payouts who won't bring any immediate help to the team. The best IK would have done was bring in scoring. But his addition would make Gaborik's scoring secondary. And that's fine, but which of those guys are you going to put on second line, and who are you going to put in their center to complement them? Next...they just signed Prospal..he's going nowhere before opening day...next, ditching Redden we're told is all but assured. As I laid out in my previous post, that sure seems to be the case considering the salary structure(I still say I'll believe it when I see it)...And those others? What sense does it make to ditch them BEFORE the season starts? Look, as I said, I don't think this team has right mix up the center. But as we were discussing earlier(via York's comments), any strange bounce of luck can vault a team into the finals, provided they make the playoffs. I don't see a way this team doesn't make it, UNLESS the injury bug ruins Gaborik and Lundqvist for the season...Now about the kids...personally, I like watching young guys get their feet wet in the NHL...but you can't have it both ways...you either develop them slow by interspersing them with vets or you throw them into the fire. The latter doesn't work very well...onto what you could get for Drury, Prospal, Avery, Redden, or Rosival...Not much...you might be able to get a mid-round pick for anyone not named Redden...but nothing that would be worth moving at the beginning of the season UNLESS they were going to make a serious bid for a guy like GAGNER or Bobby RYAN...lastly, as I've argued in the past, no team(aside from Pittsburgh) goes into the season with the expectation of finishing last or in the bottom of the pack. I would bet if you asked ANYONE in the Islander organization...or the Thrasher organization(two teams I pick for bottom this season), they'll say they're looking to reach the playoffs...and then, as aforementioned, anything can happen.
tdchi
Mon Aug 23 2010 3:28 pm EST
Yeah, we need hockey, no doubt. This is the only place where the summer seems endless.
Zebop
Mon Aug 23 2010 3:26 pm EST
And for those who think there is no way the Rangers are gonna pay Redden's full salary to have him play somewhere else the hawks are about to do that with Huet and if they can afford to the rangers can too.
Danylo Halytskyj
Mon Aug 23 2010 3:00 pm EST
Dany, that's it? Expected better.
York18
Mon Aug 23 2010 2:55 pm EST
E I was joking one and I watched the wall go to hell a number of times this summer and I didn't post a damn thing, so get over yourself douche
York18
Mon Aug 23 2010 2:53 pm EST
Kenny.Thats the defense that wont sit well with Hank and if they allow 35-40 shots per game and cahnces against with his character and personality he's gonna start complaining and goes in public , and raise his arms like roy did if things get ugly on the ice or pull himself out during the game.I dont think they gonna trade him either but i think if he starts talking garden would listen and the fact that its unlikely that they would trade him he can easily stop rebuilding .Its easy said than done however there are ppl with pride such as Hank and tanking would be embarassing .
ilya
Mon Aug 23 2010 2:32 pm EST
The only thing that will seem to help the content of the posts on this board will be when training camp opens. At least at that point there will be something more tangible to talk about.
wally5460
Mon Aug 23 2010 2:28 pm EST
Getting back to hockey..........................I would have to say that the most optomistic guy on the wall would say the NYR are likely to be fighting for the 8th spot just like last year.....while the most pessimistic might say bottom 5 overall. A realistic, middle of the road guy probably sees a bottom 10 OA team for 2010-2011.........Everyone seems to agree that the NYR lack elite 1st line (especially center) and 1st pair D talent........So, what I'm getting at is.....If Kovalchuk is not coming and Sather's best effort to address the problem seems to be Todd White, then.......I must conclude once again, that yet another opportunity has been missed and the NYR are left with no other way out of this mess other than to rebuild. The fact that I am saying this in August and not February tells me how hopeless the situation at the Garden has become.........So here's how I see it now.....What better time than now to fold and cut bait.....You don't need Drury, Prospal, Avery, Redden, or Rosival on this team to be a bottom 10 OA, so clear them out for absolutely anything. You can be bottom 1-10 while icing a lineup of Frolov/Christensen/Gaborik....Dubinsky/White/Calli.......MZA/AA or Stepan/Prust.....Boogey/Boyle/J Williams. Is that lineup MORE unwatchable than with the three vet$??? No. On D, Staal/Gman.....DZ/Emminger.....McDonough/Gilroy.......(Goodbye Redden and Rosy)..........The NYR have exactly what a team needs going into a tank season: They have vets like Christensen and White who can be beat out by AA or Stepan or who can let them develop slowly. They have size and toughness. They have a backup goalie for Hank to play 55-60 games and not get killed or burnt out......They have kids that likely will not overperform and screw things up. Hell, it would be MORE exciting to me to watch this lineup, AND, there would be hope. Take those 5 vets out, banish them or get picks. Trade a guy or two plus some extra picks at the deadline for another 1st rounder or two. Finish bottom 5 and keep this going for another year or two. Hopefully, in another 2-3 years there is an elite center on the team and an elite D-man. Maybe one of them has to be aquired via trade or FA but there will now be lots of $$$ to spend on the right guys.....Hopefully, Gabby and Hank still can fill their roles........This is not the greatest plan and I know about the poor draft year (of course!) coming up but what other way out of this mess is there??? Status quo? Wait until the contracts expire? Sather's mistakes are like a prison term for the fans! I want parole!
Ken
Mon Aug 23 2010 1:46 pm EST
when the wall goes to hell, one name is always in the center of it. Kind of tells ya something... no???
E
Mon Aug 23 2010 12:50 pm EST
I forgot you are the keeper of original material like get your shine box and the one legged man. I guess you coined take my wife please also. But Henny Youngman you ain't - more like Benny Bungman.
Danylo Halytskyj
Mon Aug 23 2010 12:50 pm EST
as does his coach !!!!!!!!!!!!!!
stevielegs
Mon Aug 23 2010 12:27 pm EST
LOLOLOLOLOLOLOL....whilst hurling the insults at 1 another, please don't lose sight of 1 very important FACT: Sather sucks!
RF4L
Mon Aug 23 2010 12:23 pm EST
Dany, first I was joking, second get your own material, if you're going to try and insult me at least do it without throwing out old rehased insults I have used on the board before. Now go get your mop jizz boy.
York18
Mon Aug 23 2010 12:13 pm EST
Have another one, just drink a lot of water before you go to bed, you'll feel better in the morning.
Danylo Halytskyj
Mon Aug 23 2010 12:09 pm EST
Daniella- Lol, nope you dont have to agree with me. You are probably just not competent to understand what I am writing. I am a big fan of Callahan, but I dont think 12 Callahans on a team is a optimal fit. If I had 12 callys I'd deal 3 and keep 9. What will your response be to that? "eeihhhhhh wutz wrong with Cally// Daniella" European ice. Cally had more assists then Gretzky last season. Iam a girl.
Ola
Mon Aug 23 2010 11:28 am EST
Wow, check it out, the fluffer came out to play too. Guess it's a slow day on set.
Danylo Halytskyj
Mon Aug 23 2010 11:10 am EST
Dany, it doesn't take much to feel more masculine then you. Calling you names is just a bonus.
York18
Mon Aug 23 2010 11:09 am EST
Ola - and apparently i do have to agree with you because if I don't and try and have an opinion different from yours and try to express it I am the most stupid person to post, retarded and a mongoloid - not to mention a girl which you seem to throw in as well meaning down deep that you believe women are stupid, retarded and mongoloids as well - nice. My comparison of the European ice surface and the need for more puck handlers there is a valid one and was not a knock on Euros in any way but you seem to perceive it that way. It stands to reason that the larger the ice surface the more the need for someone who can skate circles around others and on a smaller surface less mobile guys who can position themselves in the right areas will thrive also. Do you need a mix of both - in a perfect world and team yes but it is not as simple as you put it either because not all play makers have chemistry with all goal scorers.
Danylo Halytskyj
Mon Aug 23 2010 10:55 am EST
tdchi - I have seen Leino play quite a bit the last two seasons and while I think he has potential if you are going for a cup you take a Knuble over a Leino. If you are building for the next couple of years with no hope for the cup this year you take a Leino. Let's also keep in mind that Leino is 26 so he is not exactly a kid in hockey terms also.
Danylo Halytskyj
Mon Aug 23 2010 10:52 am EST
Ola - good job - when you can't come up with anything else start calling the other person stupid, retarded and cursing at them. I don't really care how many assists Knuble has either - I care how many goals he has as that's his job. Your point seemed to be that Knuble isn't a play maker so it would stand to reason that you wouldn't care about how many assists he had. So in order to prove yourself more masculine then me you feel the need to call me daniella? That's precious!
Danylo Halytskyj
Mon Aug 23 2010 9:36 am EST
Dany - I think you under-estimate LEINO. The Wings had real high hopes for him before they cut him loose(if I remember correctly, there was a salary cap issue involved)...He was slow to catch on in Philly, but became basically one of their lead scorers in the POs last year. I'd take him over...say...an older guy like KNUBLE any day of the week...On another somewhat unrelated subject...I was just re-reading an article about the NYLANDER situation in Washington, and wondering if in fact that is what's in store for REDDEN if he doesn't have a banging camp. Nylander was demoted to the AHL, loaned to Grand Rapids(Detroit's farm club) and then subsequently loaned to the Finish elite league. I wonder if something behind the scenes isn't being negotiated with Redden, seeing as though the salary structure of the team WITH Marc Staal seems to basically close the chapter on his tenure here...If Staal signs for $4.5 million multi-year(which I imagine will be the final figure), that puts the Rangers at just under a half a mill in cap space...to fit Redden AND Staal under the cap, Sather could ditch or buy out WHITE(feasible, but not likely), and then ditch or buy out EMINGER(more likely I suppose), and then trade or demote GILROY. That would give them $5.5 million, most of which would go to Staal, and the remainder of which could go to say McDONAGH(given that he makes the team)...Really at this point, keeping Reds is looking like its not even financially possible, without some serious roster juggling...Unless, I suppose, ROZSIVAL is traded, in which case all the cap issues are resolved...Man...what a conundrum...Another thing...seems like there is still a very good crop of RFAs and UFAs out there. Seems as though RFAs aren't really lured away too often...but I tell you...I could stand to nab GAGNER away from the Oil. With HALL, he probably becomes expendable(though I've heard their trying to move COGLIANO, who is also an RFA)...wonder what kind of trade would bring him here...and when was the last time a cup winning goaltender went into September without out a team, just months after hoisting Lord Stanley's chalice? Thought on this bleak news day...
tdchi
Mon Aug 23 2010 8:50 am EST
dany- lol, you seriously got to be the most stupid dude to ever post at this wall... "EEHHhh this is not Sweden ehhh. I am a mongoloid ehhhh. //daniella" If you think you can win a cup with 12 Mike Knubles up front, thats your right. I personally, and you don't have to agree with me, think that Washington would have been better served if they had a better mix after their top 3 up front. It was evident in the PO's, and long before that in the regular season, that Washington was very one dimensional. Few teams could get a hold of them, but once you did they weren't much of a match. If anything that was obvious when Was played the western teams. I saw them get their rears handed to them by CBJ for examples, and that was really a eye openeer.
Ola
Mon Aug 23 2010 8:46 am EST
Dany- lol, whats your problem? Are you drunk or just retarded? Where did I ever say that Washington's problem was that they had Knuble instead of Leino? Of the players you mentioned, several of them are really good at what they are good at. I've never said anyhting else, but none of them have any creativity, none of them holds on to the puck, none of them have much vision. And please, I don't give a fuck about how many assists Knuble had. He aint no playmaker.
Ola
Mon Aug 23 2010 8:14 am EST
Villie Leino had 6 goals in 55 games last year and has 11 career NHL goals yet you think he is better than Knuble. Ben Eager had more goals than Leino last year in almost the same amount of games. Ville Leino had less points than Enver Lisin last season with more ice time. Being able to pass and skate does not mean you create and produce more goals. This isn't Sweden where the rink is larger and 'stiffs' (who can put the puck in the net and take the body) as you like to refer to them are much more valuable than dipsy doodlers.
Danylo Halytskyj
Mon Aug 23 2010 8:04 am EST
I wish the Rangers had some garbage players who could score 30 goals. And if you can't recognize sarcasm in the comparison with Malkin then I can't help you there it is probably to late.
Danylo Halytskyj
Mon Aug 23 2010 1:05 am EST
Dany- And just drop the Knuble talk and the Malkin comparisions. Besides not being able handle the puck nor pass it; he can't skate either. He is a GARBAGE PLAYER in the positive sense of the word, he is a veteran presence -- but he is nothing else.
Ola
Mon Aug 23 2010 1:00 am EST
Dany- Dont you agree with me that the names you mentioned are stiffs??? They handle the puck like it's a handgrenade. And how do you fit in someone who isn't a stiff under the cap? It's not hard, Philly got Leino cheap and with a cheap contract. You get what you look for, the players you mentioned make more then what Prospal and Tanguay signed for last summer. I am not saying that the guys you mentioned are crap, they aren't. But Caps only had that and that hurt them, and I said that it would before the POs even started last season.
Ola
Sun Aug 22 2010 4:20 pm EST
And Knuble scored more goals than that stiff Malkin who only managed 28.
Danylo Halytskyj
Sun Aug 22 2010 4:19 pm EST
Keep in mind Knuble scored as many goals as Eric Staal, St. Louis and the Sedins - I guess they are stiffs also.
Danylo Halytskyj
Sun Aug 22 2010 4:17 pm EST
I am assuming you believe Knuble, Laich, Fleischmann and Fehr to be stiffs? Since I am pretty sure you were referring to OV, Backstrom and Semin as quality guys. Stiffs (ie Knuble in your book) don't score 29 goals. There were only 24 people in the league that scored more goals than Knuble, I guess other than those 24 players the rest of the NHL is full of stiffs?
Danylo Halytskyj
Sun Aug 22 2010 4:13 pm EST
Ola - and how do you propose to bring in a bunch of forwards that are not, as you say, stiffs when you have 3 forwards making a ton of money?
Danylo Halytskyj
Sun Aug 22 2010 4:11 pm EST
Bottom line is the Penguins scored 20 more goals than they gave up last season and we scored 4 more than we gave up. There is a possibility that the Penguins will give up fewer goals this year as well as their d will probably a bit more defensive minded this year by replacing Gonchar with Martin. They may score a bit less as well but will most probably have a better chance of scoring more than they give up than we will. Keep in mind that Kunitz missed 30 games last season so they will probably get more of a contribution from him as well this year.
Danylo Halytskyj
Sun Aug 22 2010 3:33 pm EST
We, and I in particular, complain a lot on our GM. But there are definitely a lot of not so sharp GM's and coaches out there. Guys who are just stuck in old patterns to the extreme. Like we have seen so many times what wins cups in the NHL right now. What style that is successful. You need a mix of everything, no doubt. But teams that don't have creativity, they struggle. Like look at Philly, they have seize and everything; but they have also THREE forwards in Briere, Leino and Giroux who are nothing but 1-way offensively creative MIDGETS. Now they have Zherdev too. They have understood what it is about, which is not so hard. Look at Chicago for example, Veersteeg and co. Guys like that. I am no advocating for skill vs size -- you need both. But a supriseing amount of GM's and coaches in this league seems to want a team full of guys like say Chris Kunitz or the likes. Look at Washington, they have 3 forwards with skill, their GM brought in 9 STIIFFS to compliment them. Thats just braindead in the game today. Pittsburgh have had the same tendencys. Add like ONE forward like a Jiri Hudler/Claude Giroux/Ville Leino or someone of the likes, or a vet in that mold -- and Pitts AND Washington would be much harder to adjust against.
Ola
Sun Aug 22 2010 3:27 pm EST
I think Pittsburgh are doing a pretty bad job assembling their team; still, they have a solid blueline, a great goaltender (most of the time) and the best centers in the league by a pretty wide margin. But they certainly wouldn't have been hurt by having some talent on the wing; I still hold them as favorites for the cup, in the east at least, but it will hurt them.
Ola
Sun Aug 22 2010 2:04 pm EST
There is an issue to bottom out lol if the players lose without the fight than there is a major issue , maybe the fans feel that they need to bottom out and the managment but like i said previously no way it should be mentioned to the players the job of the coaching staff and the players is to compete to the last drop nd thats to win games.The players should care regardless of circumstances , and if they dont than there is a motivation issue starts with a coach and the managment.
ilya
Sun Aug 22 2010 2:03 pm EST
Dupuis and Kunitz both play left, to my knowledge. And rest assured, Dupuis on any other team in the NHL(including the Rangers), would struggle to make third line...Kunitz, I suppos you can make a case for as a second liner...And he's their best wing hands down. As much as I loathe everything about the Penguins, they'd be a sick team real wings along side their three big centers, not a bunch of marginal garbage.
tdchi
Sun Aug 22 2010 1:29 pm EST
And as scary as it may seem Pascual Dupuis' 18 goals would have been 3rd on out team for wingers with only Gabby and Cally netting more (and Cally only had 19). If you want to be a stickler and say Prospal and Dubi played the wing also then another big whoop de doo as Dupuis only had 2 less goals than those two also.
Danylo Halytskyj
Sun Aug 22 2010 1:25 pm EST
You seem to have overlooked Kunitz who averages 20 goals a season as a winger on the left side.
Danylo Halytskyj
Sun Aug 22 2010 1:18 pm EST
DANY - and that DRURY is the Rangers only bonfided set in stone centers show how horrible this team will really be...filing in the rest with the likes of Christensen, White, AA, a yer older Prospal?, Dubi and Boyle makes one nauseous..Thewings are fine, it;s the D and the C spot that will keep this team as a bottom ten club
Hospo
Sun Aug 22 2010 11:11 am EST
Dany - that's an interesting way of looking at it. I would say an even better way of looking at it is that the Penguins are weaker on wing than the Rangers are at the center...Goddard, Asham, Rupp and Adams are their four rightwings right now. Asham is the top goal-scorer among that mix. Likely, either Kennedy or Talbot...or Malkin will move to one side or the other. Or at least I would suspect...bottom line is that the Rangers aren't the only team with flaws. And I know plenty of people here will say 'I'll take the Penguins' flaws any day over the Rangers" and I probably wouldn't disagree entirely. But the point is, they have a lineup that is almost solely based upon the production of two, maybe three players. And if one of those guys goes in a funk(see: Malkin) and the other gets injured(see: Crosby)you don't get very far. But who knows? Maybe Malkin and Crosby each have 120 point seasons. Then I guess that might make up for how craptacular the rest of their lineup is, save for maybe Orpik and Staal...and minor footnote for Gologiski and Letang...Y'all already know my contempt for Marc 'Over-rated' Fleury.
tdchi
Sun Aug 22 2010 9:50 am EST
While Aaron Asham may not be the bee's knees let's compare him to our $7 million dollar man. Asham had 4 less goals than Drury in 7 mins less ice time per game. Asham was also only a -2 compered to Drury's -10. Let's not forget the other part of the equation - he makes 10% of what Drury makes so you can spend $6,300,000 to try and find those four more goals.
Danylo Halytskyj
Sun Aug 22 2010 9:13 am EST
crap...part of that post got cut off...I was saying the Rangers have swapped a number of guys...Boogaard for Brashear...Frolov for Higgins(or Kotalik...take your pick)...
tdchi
Sun Aug 22 2010 9:10 am EST
DCI - I don't think any of those things are out of the realm of possibility...Like it or not, Valiquette for Biron...and on a more speculative note, MZA for Lisn(though the Danish Hobbit is still an unknown, many consider him a can't miss for the NHL and a player that will succeed at the NHL level)...Certainly questions remain: There's still no shut-down defender and the collection of centers is among the weaker sets in the league)...But to think the Rangers are going to be horrid, you have to identify a BUNCH of teams that will surpass them in the standings. In general, I can't think of an Eastern team that has improved so much that they're going to come out of the gate like a shot...maybe TAMPA...but it's a club that still has suspect goaltending...In fact, I see a number of teams I could foresee taking a step back...Namely MONTREAL, but also the Devils(depending on Kovalchuk's signing) and the Pens(See: Arron Asham, top winger). Other teams I just don't see improving much from last season(Hurricanes, Atlanta, and the Islanders)...I see strides in Toronto, and can envision them battling it out for the last seed...but really, this Ranger club is an improved on over the team that had a solid 38-33-11 record...I actually like NHL.com's take on it, and it seems like the most reasonable one I've read, even if it's a bit rosier of a picture than most of us see...on your list of has-beens: AVERY is anything but over the hill. I personally think he's got to find his place on the team and play his game like he did back in 2008. He had a rough time under the microscope last year and needs to find himself on the ice again...On DRURY - Disagree on him too...You've got to realize Drury's season was a product of three factors: His early-season concussion, his evolving role on a team that basically moved all of centers, and him having an all-around off-year. I think for several months after the concussion, Drury wasn't as aggressive around the net, and really that's how the guy scores goals. He's got a master's degree in garbology. And the fact that he was basically slotted to rule the Rangers' PK --a role formerly tasked to Betts --a lot of his effort was directed toward keeping the puck out of the net instead. I think you'll see Drury pot 20 goals and 50 points this year, especially if some of the younger players can step up on the PK...Another difference I see are hopefully improvements in Hartford. Stepan, if he plays there, will be a nice call-up. Now in the sophomore year of Grachev's career, I expect he'll be knocking hard for a look at the NHL level. Dupont and Byers could be fourth-line callups...and Wiese, by most accounts, is read for the NHL. Other notables include Sauer and of course McDonagh, who I still believe will make the team out of camp. I think there's depth there that is improved over last year. Now the only problem remaining is finding a coach who will give those players more than a one-game glance...Hospo - I'll throw your last year's 30-rack of PBR onto Z's bet. I simply don't see a way this team finishes worse than last year, barring of course, a major injury to Hank and/or Gaborik.
tdchi
Sun Aug 22 2010 9:06 am EST
DCI: The Detroit Redwings .... If you can become a Redwings fan, you will have what to smile about ..... Chances are they will not be cursed with injuries like last year ... Their kids that were moved up the lines to fill holes got great experience, some did an admirable job, have been backed down to 3rd & 4th lines to continue development, and Jiri Hudler is back from Russia playing RW on their 3rd line. (he can play the center position too. (I think Justin Abdelkader was one of their kids that shined and may be unsigned). Detroit seems to use the 4th linr for development spots, where we need to dress hitmen.... Maybe its because they have a few power forwards & we don't..... In any event, I think they will return to the top of the charts this year....
mf
Sun Aug 22 2010 7:15 am EST
http://sports.espn.go.com/nhl/news/story?id=5482334
stevielegs
Sun Aug 22 2010 7:13 am EST
http://www.nhl.com/ice/news.htm?id=535775&navid=DL|NHL|home
stevielegs
Sun Aug 22 2010 6:47 am EST
York the bottom line is this team is not deep, and has not been a TEAM. ....HOSPO getting this vengeful gm to go for it has been one big pain. He blames the fans for his mistakes, such as signing Gomez & Drury. He, in his feeble ego mind, feels unappreciated for his genius, hence almost no interviews to be held accountable. .....The players have to overcome and change a bad culture. That's a tall order with what I call this autocratic regime., alias dictatorship. In a smaller city with the same management, the NYR would probably go bust.
stevielegs
Sun Aug 22 2010 6:25 am EST
HOSPO - Well, I would like Filet Mignon and Playboy Playmates every night, but the reality is the Rangers are Hot Dogs and a last call hook-up. So want we really want is not happening this year so I am trying to find a few positives to get me through what is sure to be a long, arduous season
DCIGolfer
Sat Aug 21 2010 9:39 am EST
The Penguins just signed their first line right winger....ARRON ASHAM!! Now that's some talent on the right side...Rupp, Goddard, now Asham...I didn't think it was possible for me to dislike this team any more...well...guess I was wrong...in other news, someone posted this on Carp's site, and it just warmed the cockles of my heart. Now, I don't ordinarily take joy in watching ANY hockey player go down. But in this case...JOY!!! --->http://www.hockeyfights.com/fights/94177
tdchi
Sat Aug 21 2010 8:55 am EST
Z - We're on....DCI - long ago I would have ben happy with "a team that competes every night" or "young kids developing and bust their asses despite stinking" but i'm long past that and it's not what winning organizations shoot for ..I couldn't care less abouyt seeing kids, or home growns I just want to see a good team on the ice THIS YEAR.....ANd i highly doubt that will happen
Hospo
Sat Aug 21 2010 3:56 am EST
Long time no post. Been lurking and here are my 2 pennies on the upcoming season. I have LOW expectations for RESULTS and HIGH expectations for DEVELOPMENT. I want to see as many younger players sprinkled into the lineup as possible. Drury, Prospal, White and Avery are toast. Staal takes a big step forward as a legitimate #1 D. The hoRRor twins are hopefully concussed in a freak mid-ice head to head collision (semi-joking) MDZ gets a partial clue in his own end. and I would like to see McD up for more than a handful of games. Love the Biron signing and can't wait to see the dwarf MZA on garden ice. Overall, I would be happy with a team that competes hard each game they have the talent to be 15-20 overall. Hard work and breaks will make this Sather mess a playoff team. Otherwise it will be a LONG 82 games for us diehards.
DCIGolfer
Sat Aug 21 2010 1:10 am EST
RF4L- This is clearly "the year" for us, in the future, for a while, it will be much tougher for us. We now have a TON of cheap kids, who can play. We can afford our expensive veterans, who are in their "prime-age". Go back to the time we kicked out JJ and co, this was the year we were supposed to contend. Now, Slats screwed up all UFA signings, so natrually we won't contend. But we haven't rebuilt for 6 years and got a bottom 27 team, to expect that is ridiculos IMHO. We will be in the PO's hunt for sure. To state that the EXPECTATIONS for this team is to finnish in the bottom 5 is nuts, I mean only Slats can rebuild for 6 years and have expectations on his team to finnish in the bottom 6. That would be typical NY, in the 2nd year of our rebuild we were expected to win the cup.
Ola
Fri Aug 20 2010 10:59 pm EST
And if you want to go a bit NYC - Brooklyn Lager has always been one of my favorites. ;-)
Z
Fri Aug 20 2010 10:58 pm EST
Sign me up Hospo... I'm a betting man and betting that we are at least one point better than we were last year. I think I might be a bit optimistic (and a bit drunk... it always helps to be a bit drunk with this team), but I'll put a sixer on the line to say that this team makes the playoffs. Choose your poison... I plan on delivering if I'm wrong. If not, I'm stuck here in Boston and Harpoon IPA is my brand. ;-)
Z
Fri Aug 20 2010 10:47 pm EST
Z - A FACT? Damn, I feel like such a moron not knowing the true defintion of the word "Fact"..:)...I'm taking SIX Pack Bets right now that the Rangers don;t make the POs........As for Del Zotto, right now to me he is very talented offensive player but perhaps the worst defensive positioning and decision making in the league...He should get better and learn the defensive game this season, but without the help of decent coaching and strong mentoring, I'm not holding my breath.
Hospo
Fri Aug 20 2010 10:11 pm EST
Have to say... with Hank actually spelled by a decent back up in Biron (most underrated signing by the way), this IS in fact a playoff team. When it comes to bold predictions, I think they finish 5th in the east, face the Debbies once again, and beat them in 6, but lose to an extremely determined Washington team in round two - 6 games.
Z
Fri Aug 20 2010 10:07 pm EST
Thing you have to dig about MDZ is that he is a smart kid... he 'gets' the game of hockey, which is evident in just about every interview you've seen with him. He has a chip and wants to be good... which will only drive him farther. i too have high hopes for this kid. I think he has an opportunity to be really good. Now, it is up to him to make the strides, but I hope to think he has a head on his shoulders. I, for one, and really excited to see what he does this year.
Z
Fri Aug 20 2010 7:13 pm EST
Dany - I think you're spot-on with your MDZ. In fact, I see no reason why you wouldn't see it the other way around...that his DEFENSE will improve and his offense will stay the same. A kid like that is certainly not taking the summer off. My guess is he'll follow more the pattern of Staal...in that he'll have nice steady improvement, not a nice steady decline...I'm not so sure about PROSPAL though...I see a win-win there. If he sucks, then his cap hit is $1 million...if he's good, he gets $2.1 million...I'm not sure where his bonus kicks in though...if it's real low, I'd probably change my opinion...VIC- WHOOA cowboy! We agree! I could see the Rangers taking seventh in the east. I'm not going to hedge bets on how long they last in the POs. I sort of agree with your other post...in theory at least.
tdchi
Fri Aug 20 2010 6:10 pm EST
I am not much for being an optimist when it comes to this Rangers team but I gotta say I have higher hopes for MDZ this season. I realize that he looked quite lost on d often last year but so did Bogosian in his rookie campaign and he showed much improvement and much more poise in his second season and I think DZ will as well. Not a given but an example nonetheless. Gilroy is the guy that concerns me more. He is much older and should be more polished. Prosapl's MO is to tank after a decent campaign so I expect nothing from him and did not want him resigned at a bump in salary especially since he is still getting paid by his former team.
Danylo Halytskyj
Fri Aug 20 2010 2:46 pm EST
As for predictions for this season.......If GABBY and HANK are healthy they will make the playoffs as the 7th seed in the East (15th Seed overall). They will lose in the first round of the playoffs in 5 games.
Vic
Fri Aug 20 2010 2:44 pm EST
Just now getting a chance to post. TD/YORK/HOSPO/E and others.....there is a difference between how the players/coach approach the season and how the GM and Owner should approach the season. The coaches and the players should be focused on the here and now. They should be trying to win every game and trying to win the Cup should they make the playoffs. The management team's (GM, President, owner) objectives are not necessarily the same. That is where the problem lies. If the primary goal of the management team is focused on anything other then winning a Cup(s) then the organization most likely won't unless they get lucky. That is the situation we are in as fans. The Rangers aren't owned by someone with a burning desire to win. The Rangers are owed by someone who is using the team, the Knicks and MSG in general as CONTENT for his cable empire. He uses the sports franchises as a means of forcing local cable companies to carry his networks. The team is little more then a revenue source and leverage tool for DOLAN. The President and GM positions are filled by a man who has pissed away the last 10 years with little to show for it. His mismanagement of this franchise will be remembered for the epic failure that it has been. I don't get the impression that the management team knows how to build a Cup winning team or cares. I think they care about making the playoffs but beyond that I don't think they care or have a clue how to go further. As a few of you pointed out, any team that is in the playoffs has "a chance to win". Lets break that down from a statistical perspective. Just making the playoffs means you are one of 16 teams with a chance to win. If everything were equal that would mean that you have a 6.25% chance to win the Cup. Not great odds at all and that is if all other things are equal. Now, factor in that the bottom seeded teams are by definition inferior to the teams that are seeded at the top. The odds for a bottom seed team drop from 6.25% to what? 2%, 1%. It is statistically possible for a 16th seeded team to win the Cup but it would be a miracle along the lines of a 69' Mets. Heck, the Miracle on Ice was statistically easier to accomplish because they only played a handful of games. To win the cup you need to win 16 games and will typically play between 20 and 25 games. If the plan for this organization is to put together a team that is just good enough to make the playoffs with the hope that their goaltender is going to somehow pull off an epic miracle to win the Cup then so be it. If that is the plan then just tell me now so I can tell them to shove it up their ass because I have no desire to sit around waiting for miracles.
Vic
Fri Aug 20 2010 1:46 pm EST
WILDCARD - You are...And it's not that i automatically think that the Rangers will suck and go with it no matter what, it's just how i see the team, the personnel and the coach..If I think thwy have a chancer to be good or do stuff inthe POs like three years ago, i'll say so...It's the three off-seasons since then that I think the Rangers have put together really bad teams....Here's hoping.training camp proves me wrong..
Hospo
Fri Aug 20 2010 1:31 pm EST
Hospo: My mistake...i thoguht you had sad bottom 5 last year, and no better than botom 10 if tehy were lucky...but I must be "mis-remembering" Anyway...as for MDZ, I think you are correct, I think he slides back offensivly this year...but I dont know if it will be due to other teams knowing what he can do, teams at the end of last seson knew, and he was still able to make some really great plays. i think it will be more due to him trying to be better on the defensive end. It seems all young D that can get some offense go through it...they need to learn how to balance their game properly...
Wildcard
Fri Aug 20 2010 12:57 pm EST
Hospo: IMO, the chances are that the Rangers will finish inbetween where you and TD are predicting. In other words, somewhere around the 20th overall position and unless the team runs into a slew of injuries, they will do so with a lineup that introduces precious few rookies. All in all an uninspiring outlook. Hopefully, the likes of Grachev and Stepan will have strong AHL seasons so at least we'll have a little something to look forward to down the road.
RF4L
Fri Aug 20 2010 12:36 pm EST
Re chemistry....I know I haven't seen it yet, at least not to the point where it's obvious. IMO, it did seem apparent late in the season last year, but I found that was more due to the Prust/AA/Shelley line than anything else and that still wasn't enough to get the team into the POs. I say this because I saw way too many stretches of uninspired play last year and that's a sure sign of chemistry issues. The last several games, of which the AA line had a significant role, the team played with energy. Can they pick up this season where they left off? Well, dunno, but if a PO finish is to be realized, they need to reduce drastically those stretches of passionless play (I don't expect a complete elimination - that's a rare thing indeed, even for the best teams).
RF4L
Fri Aug 20 2010 12:24 pm EST
TDCHI - I don't think the Rangers chemisty is anything special, anything better then the other 30 teams in the league..And we obviously disagree on the defense....I see very little hope back there outside of Staal and DZ's offense....If I'm right, the season will be a disaster, if you're right, the POs are very possible...we'll see...
Hospo
Fri Aug 20 2010 12:19 pm EST
WILDCARD - Opinons are one thing, and we obvioulsy disagree.Some of your views just make zero snes to me, but i'm sure you feel the same...So be it.....But don't make up things and throw shit against the wall......I always had the Rangers out of the POS and in the bottom ten for last year..not the bottom five...I did not hink they would be THAT bad, even though they were for most of the season...Perhaps, you're confusing my bet with TDCHI about the Leafs vs Rangers..Where I screwed up there was not on the Rangers but in thinking the Leafs would be alot better...So, think before you post....
Hospo
Fri Aug 20 2010 12:18 pm EST
ola: Define 'THE YEAR' please....
RF4L
Fri Aug 20 2010 12:18 pm EST
Alas, I don't think Dreary will play much better - defensively and in terms of effort, I have no complaints about him. Offensively, however, I do, but that's more because of his contract. At 33 and with minimal skill around him, I see zero reasons to expect anything more than last season's paltry output and wouldn't be surprised to see his numbers worsen. He's clearly on the downside of his career. That's okay, too - age catches up to everyone. Too bad Sather's lack of foresight is so pronounced.
RF4L
Fri Aug 20 2010 12:17 pm EST
Hospo- Slats cant manage, that's damned sure. But this is THE YEAR for this team. We have rebuilt and our kids are young AND cheap. Compare our depth now with when JJ was around. So Slats can't manage, Thats a given. But that will show in us not beeing top 12 in the league, to expect the roster we have to be bottom 10 is ridiculos.
Ola
Fri Aug 20 2010 12:14 pm EST
TDCHI - Actually, it's not hogwash..I'm not saying Del Zotta is the same type of player as Prospal,..I just think that, for a totally diofferent reason, his offense can possibly slide back this year...I just that I think in his sopmore year he could eassily slide back offensively, expecially since the League knows all about him...and he will need to focus somewhat on defense..Unfortunately, for him to improve defensively--he can't get any worse--I dont think the Ranges have the coaching and player menotrs to help him do that ..I hope i'm wrong....We'll see...
Hospo
Fri Aug 20 2010 11:34 am EST
I don't believe the rangers are a playoff team. Without Hank, there would be no question about them being a bottom 5 club. With him, they could sneak in at #8 depending on how the season plays out. With a key injury or two, bottom 5. They have added more goals in Frolov, but the other eastern teams have improved themselves. Unless kids make leaps in production, and crusty vets recapture their youth, it will be a long season of hearing the boorish coach pissing and moaning at post game press conferences.
Bob
Fri Aug 20 2010 11:34 am EST
RF4L: Yes they can all play worse...but I expect to see Drury play better...i think it might be the last year he has any good from him, other than defensivly, but he has alot of pride, and I dont see him quiting...I would put money on a better year. Prospel I expect to have a lesser year...so theose two I think will even out.
Wildcard
Fri Aug 20 2010 11:32 am EST
Hospo: Before alst season you were talking about being worse than bottom 10, more like bottom 5. And as for sunshine...I said before last season started that the Rangers would end up in the middle 3rd of the NHL, i thought like 14th or 15th, so i was wrong ont hat, but I thought they would make a run at the playoffs, but just miss. And they would only make it if tehy had no injuries, and other teams had a ton and didnt recouver from them...basicly, they would have needed help to get in. Thats what happened, except they ended up a bit firther down the overall rankings than I thought...but I expected the Cyotes and Avs to have much worse seasons out west, and the canadians to struggle more this alst season. But I never thought they were a shoe in for the playoffs. I think they will make the playoffs this year...thats just my gut, but I dont think they will have a "better" year this year, I just think they will sneak in the way teh flyers did last year. I jsut dont see this years team as worse than last years. Yes the older guys will be another year older, but I think they will still be as good, or better than last year...there is more scoreing ability on the team, and the D will most likely be better due to the young guys being older...and hell, jsut knowing that their jobs are even more ont he line, Rozival and redden will probably play better, not good, but less horrible...The goaltending situation is better, and there wont be olympics to tire the top players on the team out more....I jsut think that with a better backup last eyar, and with a bit more rest for the top players, teh Rangers get a few more points, and they are in the playoffs...I am not saying they win the cup, or even make it out of the first round...but they are not worse this year than last.
Wildcard
Fri Aug 20 2010 11:05 am EST
Hospo - I've got no problem with your pessimism(each to thier own) right up until you mention a 19-year-old first-round draft pick who was well-regarded in the NHL and had a very good rookie season(even given his defensive lapses) in the same sentence as PROSPAL(?!?). That's just plain hogwash. I'm not going to say the Rangers are going to rocket to the top of the league right now...but I think you're being overly hard on a young defense that is just starting to get its feet wet in the NHL...And I think you underestimate how the team's chemistry will elevate its play...Now if I were to criticize something(other than the center position, in which I agree with you 100 percent), it would be the jack-ass coach, who I think should have been fired when the Rangers WERE looking as bad as they did before the Olympic break...but hey...whatever...I'll give him another season so he can give me more reasons to call for his head.
tdchi
Fri Aug 20 2010 9:41 am EST
And if I had my way none of those guys would be the club - replaced by younger legs.
RF4L
Fri Aug 20 2010 9:39 am EST
Wild: Your point about the young guys being better is valid, but it works in reverse with the older set (30 and over), including Dreary (yes, believe it or not but he can play worse), Prospal (highly doubtful he'll be able to duplicate last year's numbers), Rozy, Redden, Avery and now White.
RF4L
Fri Aug 20 2010 9:27 am EST
WILDCARD - I have no clue what the hell you are talking about....From August of last year, I said the Rangers would not make the POs, would be one of ten worst teams in the league...I was dead on (Look at the record and points)...In fact, for about a 3 month period , they were easily the 2nd worst team in the NHL.....And excuse me if don't bury my head in the sand like you always do, but I see a defense that is just as bad or worse this year...and I see a horrific center poststion that will cripple the forward lines, and I see the possibility of players declining Like Prospal, Del Zorro (ofensively, because he can;t deceline defensively), and the possibility of injuries....So, sorry for having my own opinions on the team (it wasn't long ago that I was very hight on the Rangers in Renney's next to last year and had to argue most on here) and not spraying the same sunshine that you do every year no matter what..
Hospo
Fri Aug 20 2010 9:03 am EST
Hospo: The D this year will probably be a touch better than last year, jsut due to number of games palyed for teh yonug guys. Also the offense "looks" better than last years, and if not it will be about the same, and teh Goaltending situation is better. Last year teh Rangers missed the PO BAIRLY, if they had one more win they would ahve been in....Vally gave away what, 3 or 4 games, and last eyar I seem to remember you saying that it would be luck if they were better than a bottom 5 team...they were almost in the op 8 of the east and top 16 of teh NHL, now you will repeat almost the exact same thing and the situation is better than it was last year...I dont get it...I guess if you keep saying it every year, eventually you will be correct.
Wildcard
Fri Aug 20 2010 8:59 am EST
Playoffs? NO CHANCE in Hell...Not with the defesne we have now...Not with the doughnut offense --- with the big whole in the middle ofthe forward lines....And not with a coach that I don;t think has a clue how to win in this league now or with his type of players....BOTTOM TEN team and Gonna be a real long season and god forbid the team gets one unfortunate injury to,say, gaborik, Staaal, The King or even Frolov...then we're talking BOTTOM FIVE...JMO
Hospo
Fri Aug 20 2010 8:53 am EST
TDCHI/YORK - Bingo about the "once you get in the POs anything can happen" thing..andwhy I like to play for the present rather then sacrifice the present and buld for a future 3-4 years down the line..Unfortunately, I don't think Sather is equipped to manage anything anymore..
Hospo
Fri Aug 20 2010 8:45 am EST
We'll make the PO's for sure. Why? 1. Hank will give up few goals, and with Brion he won't get burned out either. 2. We will have a good PK, thats in the walls. 3. Our PP won't be horrible with Gabby. 4. We have solid depth through 4 lines. We have 4-5 wingers who always just will bomb away and go for 6 minutes. We have a few players who can open up some ice (Prospal and MZA; more then last season).
Ola
Fri Aug 20 2010 7:43 am EST
IMO there's a greater chance the Rangers will be challenging for a lottery pick vs a PO spot. That said, I don't disagree with some on here in that there is at least a little potential that a PO finish could occur. Obviously, the biggest is the health of the King and Gabbie. Others include the maturation of Dubi, Cally, AA and Staal. Also, both Gilroy and MDZ need to have stronger years, especially in their own end. It would be a wonderfully non-Ranger like thing if MZA can translate his European success to the NHL (I'd argue that he might be the biggest wildcard on the team right now). Someone needs to at least make a reasonable attempt at filling the center ice position void - if White plays as he did 2 years ago that will only make Gabbie better. It would also be great if someone like Dale Weise steps up (ie scores 10 to 15 goals), I am wondering if this finally a season where the Rangers have injury issues - they've been amazingly injury free since the lockout, which is one of the reasons so many Hartfordites haven't seen any playing time - one man's misfortune is another man's fortune as the saying goes and sometimes when a series of injuries results in long stretches of games for farmhands, 1 or 2 of those kids actually prove they belong, thereby creating trade possibilities. Suffice to say, lots of things have to go right for the Rangers and that's asking plenty, IMO.
RF4L
Fri Aug 20 2010 7:18 am EST
Stevie, I don't know this year is not as easy as last year. I think two things will be the deciding factor. Does Gabby stay healthy all year, and does White find his game again playing with Gabby? Couple those things with Cally and Dubi having bounce back years and they answer is yes. If one of the two things first mentioned don't happen then no we have the same team as last year that misses once again.
York18
Thu Aug 19 2010 9:04 pm EST
cast your vote............prediction poll...............will or won't make the playoffs.........WON'T.............
stevielegs
Thu Aug 19 2010 7:13 pm EST
VIC: If you are not playing for the cup then you have no business even playing in the league. They should fold up the franchise if that was the case. I am not saying it is necessarily realistic but every year the gods sprinkle some pixie dust on a franchise and they end up in a situation playing for a cup. Not likely to happen here with this franchise but heh, you never know. I do however consider it absolutely unacceptable to not make the playoffs. I don't care if it is a goal in the shootout. IMO they maybe should have beat Atlanta or another doormat just a few more times and they wouldn't have been in the situation that they were in. The problem I see is this: the Rangers simply lack talent but we have seen in the past how a hard working team, and a solid goaltender can make the playoffs and make some trouble. I think Tortorella has got to get some consistency out of the players that has been lacking. No more magical disappearing Drury tricks. Callahan and Dubinsky need to step up some. The defense has to solidify. And in short, since this perfect storm of needs will likely not be achieved, the Rangers probably will be on the outside looking in. But in no way shape, or form do I think that the Rangers couldn't make the playoffs. And if not, they can still have goon festivals with TO.
E
Thu Aug 19 2010 6:42 pm EST
York18 - couldn't agree more. Like did anyone really think the Caps were going to get knocked out by the Habs? Or that the Habs were going to make it even past the first round? Or that the Bruins were going to collapse after going up 3-1 on the Flyers? I won't say the Rangers are destined for the playoffs next year, but I can't see them dropping much farther than a game or two out of contention with Hank back there.
tdchi
Thu Aug 19 2010 4:50 pm EST
Vic – How can you say ANY team in the NHL couldn't be restructured to run for the cup in five years? I understand you're down on the franchise and sometimes, I don't blame you. But five years? Hell, the Penguins and the Hawks went from joke franchises to cup winners in LESS than five years...now if you're saying the team ain't gonna get a top-3 draft pick in the next five years, I'll agree there...The only way the Rangers as a franchise crashes to a sub-500 team...at least a sub-500-getting-a-top-3-draft pick team...is if Lundqvist is traded or injured or retires...Really, this club needs three things to be a cup winner and in this order: A top line center, a shut-down defenseman and secondary scoring(which would probably come with a top-line center)...Now you can argue Sather's bad contracts will hamstring the team for years to come, but all sources seem to suggest one of those contracts(Redden's) will be gone next fall, and the other two will be free agents in two years...and that's IF they don't end up on other clubs...and on Hank...I'll remind you he's signed for the next FOUR years. I wouldn't be the least bit surprised if he becomes the Rangers' Brodeur, so to speak; a Ranger for life... My only concern about Hank is that him facing 35-plus shots per game will eventually cause him to break down.
tdchi
Thu Aug 19 2010 4:04 pm EST
FYI – The “Uncle Daddy” moniker is balls-on accurate(and very funny too): “The story came to light after a French-language crime weekly in Canada headlined a story promising "the whole truth" about a goaltender, whom it didn't name, having an affair with his sister-in-law and being asked for $9 million in alimony by his wife. Brodeur then admitted to the daily Le Journal de Montreal that he and his wife had been separated since December and that he had a relationship with his sister-in-law after she separated from her husband. Brodeur denied other aspects of the story, including the alimony demand.
tdchi
Thu Aug 19 2010 3:55 pm EST
ZEbop actually you are mistaken. Marty on average saw 25 shots or less per game. There were many a night he saw 20 and under as well. Now add in quality scoring chances and that number drops even more. Most decent goalies would look great and have long careers seeing those kinds of shot numbers.
York18
Thu Aug 19 2010 3:52 pm EST
Not to even hint that Sather is doing the right thing, because he's not. Any team that makes the playoffs is competing for the cup. Did anyone think the Flyers were going to the cup finals the last few days of the regular season? How about the year the Oilers went, there is a theme here both teams lost, but neither team was considered a real chance yet there they were. Any team that makes the playoffs can go on a run and win a cup. Any team with a goalie like Hank if he gets hot can win a cup. We are competitive as soon as we make the playoffs. I just dont think we have a coach who can win in the playoffs as evidence of Torts' coaching since he got here.
York18
Thu Aug 19 2010 3:42 pm EST
FWIW, I believe it was his wife's brother's wife. So no relation to his wife, aside from through marriage. Admittedly not as funny as Uncle Dad. :)
josh29
Thu Aug 19 2010 12:20 pm EST
Vic- I think the lockout have done anything but create a even playing field. Younger stars will become UFA's at the age of 25. If everyone is paying the same, why ever sign with the 10 least attractive teams in this league? My point is, if we, NYR, can get into like a top 8 position; I think we will stay there if we do the right thing. Thats not a guarantee to win a cup, but if you are in the top 8, with around 6 other teams, and 2 other teams that go up and down between the years depending on 1st overall talents et c -- odds are that you will be able to compete for a cup.
Ola
Thu Aug 19 2010 12:08 pm EST
VIC: I'm with you, I want a team that can compete for the cup, not a team that is merely competitive or can only win one round in the playoffs. How long has Sather been here, has it been 10 years? In 10 years Sather couldn't rebuild for at least 3 or 4 years. Geesh, if we are going to lose, lets be bad enough to draft in the top 3. At least we would have a better chance of getting players we can build around. Instead we get teased with a chance to make the playoffs or making the playoffs but not good enough to go anywhere.
davidsoc30
Thu Aug 19 2010 10:43 am EST
OLA: Just to be clear, I'm not interested in "decent". I want a team that can compete for a Cup. Anything else is a waste of time IMHO. Every move needs to be made with how it fits into transforming this team into a Cup contender not transforming it to a decent team or a better team then it is.
Vic
Thu Aug 19 2010 10:39 am EST
OLA: At some point this organization will eventually bring in people with a clue regarding how to build a winner. Eventually there will be a different owner. At some point in the future the Rangers will have a team that can compete for Cup. It might be another 54 years before it happens again but it will happen at some point. I can't see the future. I can only see the organization for what it is right now. From there you can make educated projections on how good they can be in subsequent years. It would be difficult to forecast more then 5 years out so that is what I stick to. When the deadline of 06' was on us I made the statement that if the Rangers could purge JJ, NYLANDER, STRAKA, etc, they had a chance to be a team that could compete for a Cup in 5 years. Well, we are about to walk into the 5th year now. The Rangers didn't blow it up. They didn't draft elite players at the top of the draft. Where are they now? They are no better then they were then. When I look at this team I see a team with no chance to compete for a Cup. Just making the playoffs would be a monumental achievement. There is nothing here that would lead me to believe that they can compete for Cup next year or the year after that. In fact, I can't see how this team can be restructured to put a team on the ice anytime in the next 5 years that could compete for a Cup. If HANK and/or GABBY blow out a knee and the team is able to get a top pick in the draft then they might get a kid who could be a superstar in 5 years. Outside of that I expect nothing but another five to ten years of mediocrity and failure.
Vic
Thu Aug 19 2010 10:27 am EST
ZEBOP: I don't doubt that you would see 30 or 35 shots a game when looking at MARTY's stats. The key though is how many of them were quality scoring chances? How many of them required him to sell out his body to make the save?
Vic
Thu Aug 19 2010 10:17 am EST
Vic- I think we will be decent again in the near future; like com up over the bottom 15 level at least, and if we can do that -- I think we are in a very good position to build a good team. Besides that, Slats is old and can't be around forever... ;) Seriously though, we have resources in NY. We have NYC that will keep on lureing players here, to some extent at least, and at the very very least, in perspective to say the EDM's and Nashvilles of the league.
Ola
Thu Aug 19 2010 10:16 am EST
Good line, Vic ... wait, I thought it was with his sister-in-law's brother ... or ... ah, forget it! ... I understand your argument too. Richter in the World Cup that year was the epitome of great, high-pressure goaltending, plus the Stanley Cup year etc. But I'm sure if you took at the stats (I haven't and won't) you'll see plenty of games where Brodeur faced 35-plus shots or whatever number you want to pick. I've seen too much of Brodeur to simply dismiss him as a compiler.
Zebop
Thu Aug 19 2010 9:56 am EST
TD: I can see HANK winning at least one Cup in his career. It won't be with the Rangers though.....
Vic
Thu Aug 19 2010 9:54 am EST
ZEBOP: Yes, MARTY played a lot of games and was very durable. I think a big part of that is directly related to how little work he got when he was playing. Specifically, how little punishment he was forced to put his body through compared to guys like RICHTER. RICHTER was forced to play like a mad man throwing his body around the net making acrobatic saves, all game, every game. MARTY could have read a book and enjoyed some hot tea while playing on most nights. I could remember so many games where the Rangers played the Devils and it looked like the rink was tilted on one end. It seemed like the puck was the Rangers end the entire game and when they did get it out and into the offensive end it would be for some weak, long shot from just over the blue line with no traffic in front. It was disgusting. MARTY could have slept with his sister-in-law right there in goal during the game and the only person scoring on that goal would be him.......
Vic
Thu Aug 19 2010 9:35 am EST
Zepbop - I couldn't agree more on LUNDQVIST. I don't think most Ranger fans realize how unbelievably bless we are to have him in net. You talk about the 2005-2006 resurgence to fans, and most of them will say something about JAGR before they mention who was between the pipes. Without Hank, I don't think this team would have made the playoffs at all over the last five years...Take that thought and look at the guy's stats. They're off the charts for a goalie his age, plain and simple. I was trying to think of a goalie who amassed as much as he has in the first five years of his career, and I can't. Goalies usually take several years to heat up(case in point: Miller, Luongo...hell...even the great Patrick Roy and Uncle Daddy). Hank jumped in and won 30. That year, he had a .922 save percentage....the lowest he's gone since has been .912, which is still better than most goalies in the league. Take Hank and put him on a team like the Capitals or the Flyers, and you'd have domination...And frankly, I don't think it'll be long before Hank is hoisting the cup. Mind you, he's JUST reaching his prime. It would be nice if someone could put a decent team in front of him.
tdchi
Thu Aug 19 2010 9:35 am EST
cm his sister's brother's wife? that would then be his brother's wife......try again ;-)........uncle daddy is his name..........
stevielegs
Thu Aug 19 2010 9:25 am EST
I think you can also argue that not every first-string goalie could have played as much as Brodeur has. Yes, he played behind a great team for many years, helping him to compile great stats, but his longevity -- the amound of games he was in there each season, and how his play seemingly never took a dive -- I think needs to be respected. And I think you could argue all day long what Richter could have done on the Devils and Brodeur on another team etc. Who knows? That's what makes sports great.
Zebop
Thu Aug 19 2010 9:08 am EST
Statsistically there is no comparison between Richter and Brodeur. But there is something to be said for the teams they goalie plays on. One telling statistic that I feel tells the story more completely is who the other goalies are on the team. Look at llast year: Yann Danis 12 467 16 2.05 3 2 1 191 0.923 1 0 Martin Brodeur 77 4499 168 2.24 45 25 6 1836 0.916 1 9. (Sorry for the awkward cut andPaste). 2008-2009: Scott Clemmensen 40 2356 94 2.39 25 13 1 1044 0.917 5 2 Martin Brodeur 31 1814 73 2.42 19 9 3 797 0.916 2 5 Kevin Weekes 16 795 32 2.42 7 5 0 367 0.92 1 0. Granted, the two seasons beforehand, Brodeur played more and his backups weren't as impressive, but Yann Dennis, Scott Clemmensen and Kevin Weekes had numbers that, prorated, would look equally impressive. It is a moot point, because Brodeur has the numbers, but an argument can be made for the impact of the team on the goalie. Besides, I don't think there is a player I hate more than Marty "Your Sister's Pretty" Brodeur (I think it was Despo who came up with that one, even though technically it was his sister's brother's wife!)
ColoradoMark
Thu Aug 19 2010 8:50 am EST
Zebop: I agree...but Would Richter have been a 1st ballot guy, no question, if he had been on those same Devils teams? Of course thats part of the "luck" Very few guys put themselves there...I mean, how many goalies woud have won multiple cups if tehy had been on better teams? I am sure Richter would ahve won more if he was on teh Devils, or the RedWings during the cup years...
Wildcard
Thu Aug 19 2010 8:41 am EST
myrtletrailers: Well if you read my post about Lundqvist, I was compairing him to CURRENT netminders...and only compairing him to Miller and Luongo...I know there were goalies in the past that were better than he has been...But I dont think Joseph is one of them...in 19 NHL seasons Cujo had 7 30+ win seasons (and three at 29) in 5 NHL NHL seasons Lundqvist has 5 30+ win seasons...the first Goalteder ever, in teh history of teh NHL to START his career with 5 30 win seasons...granted some guys had only a few games int heir first season, than went on to win 30+ games almost every year, however he is still teh only NHL netminder ever to do it....even if the Rangers end up in last place, it wouldnt shock me to see the King with 30 wins again....but we shall see...I dont think this team sees last place with him in net...maybe bottom 5 depending on how other teams do, but I think its hard to be worse than some teams, when they have no D, forwards OR goalies that paly well or stay healthy.
Wildcard
Thu Aug 19 2010 8:36 am EST
I'll take Hank above anyone else in the league right now, perhaps save Miller. Biased because I watch him so much? Sure, but I think he's that good. Luongo I don't think is better than Hank. I'd love to see what the King could do behind a really good defense. He'd be a Vezina winner. He's been nominated twice, and the Rangers haven't had a crease-clearer or intimidating defense since, what, Beuk's days? ... and there's simply little comparison between Brodeur and Richter. Brodeur is a first ballot Hall of Famer, case closed.
Zebop
Thu Aug 19 2010 8:21 am EST
EDDIE EDDIE
stevielegs
Wed Aug 18 2010 10:00 pm EST
TD: CUJO had a few years where he was excellent. It didn't last long but I have to give him credit for that.
Vic
Wed Aug 18 2010 7:44 pm EST
Guys whose names belong in the discussion on goalies include Dominic Hasek, Grant Fhur, Billy Smith and Ed Belfouor. The best I've seen over 45 years of watching the NHL right now is in no real order would be Marty, Roy, Dryden, Hasek, Fhur, Richter, Smith, Belfour and Hank. There are a lot of talented goalies playing now and it really is a different game but if I needed to win a series I would want one of these guys playing goalie.
wally5460
Wed Aug 18 2010 6:28 pm EST
Wow...the fact that Cujo is even being mentioned in the same sentence as Roy, Hasek, Luongo, Brodeur and Lundqvist is astounding to me. The guy was good, but seriously. That good? And as Newfie pointed out...WTF did he win in his career? Zilch. I think its fair to compare him with Richter...but the others? They're in a class of their own...btw...Don't feed the troll.
tdchi
Wed Aug 18 2010 5:38 pm EST
HOSPO: I would never compare RICHTER and MARTY in terms of careers because of the reasons I mentioned. It isn't even a contest. However, I like think of it in different terms. If I was going to be playing in the Finals for the Cup and I could have any goalie (of the last 20 years or so) that I wanted in their prime I wouldn't complain if I had RICHTER. In fact, the guys that I would want in order are HASEK, ROY and RICHTER. MARTY, BELFOUR and CUJO were all excellent in their prime and would probably be 4th through 6th on my list.
Vic
Wed Aug 18 2010 5:20 pm EST
myrtletrailers.........remind me again,what awards Cujo won and /or anything he won in his entire NHL career ?
Newfie_Ranger
Wed Aug 18 2010 4:29 pm EST
Hey Myrtle: Please make it happen ...... That should finish off Sather. Torts, and get us Corturier ..... Thats like winning the Tri-fecta !
mf
Wed Aug 18 2010 4:18 pm EST
Truly great goalies win games for their clubs. In the case of LUNDQVIST, I can say the Rangers without him would have been a sub-500 team, no ifs, ands or buts about it. In fact, they might have even lobbied hard for a top-3 draft pick absent Hank's performance last season. The fact that he landed 35 wins, had a .921 save percentage, managed four shutouts with the defense that was in front of him was nothing short of remarkable. Personally, I'd rank him in the top-three active goaltenders in the NHL, which basically means the world. The weak goals he lets in are few and far in between...and usually they come after he's been ridden hard for 15-plus games. With that said, I gotta agree about Luongo. Definitely a good goalie, but I would never take him over Hank.
tdchi
Wed Aug 18 2010 3:19 pm EST
Hey Wildcard and Desi... You guys have to stop smoking the cow turd....There were many goalies far superior to Lunquist, Richter.... you college dropouts ever heard of Hasek or Cujo...get off the board if you dont know your stuff..... your posts are boring and inaccurate.....I think our prayers will be finally answered this year... we will finally finish 30th overall........
myrtletrailers
Wed Aug 18 2010 3:10 pm EST
Trolling the net and happened upon this story from ol' friend Brendan Shanahan. Pretty funny ... http://lastangryfan.com/2009/12/brendan-shanahan-proves-payback-really-is-a-biotch/
Zebop
Wed Aug 18 2010 1:26 pm EST
I think the question really revolves around the list of goaltenders that a legit cup contender could win a cup with. I don't mean a dominant team but rather a top 3-5 team with legit talent and systems to be on the short list of contenders. It's my position that the list is not that short. Hank would definitely be on it.
jimsherma
Wed Aug 18 2010 1:12 pm EST
E: numbers wise, Lundqvist, Miller and Luongo are about the same, regular season and playoffs...not wins loses, but winning % , GAA, and save% are all very close. I think also, just watching them all play, that they are all on teh same rung of the ladder. I think that if they all switched teams their numbers wouldnt change all that much, I would imagine that Miller and Luango would have worse numbers on the Rangers though...Both buffalo and Vancouver have better D.
Wildcard
Wed Aug 18 2010 1:04 pm EST
E...........but when Richter delivered,boy did he deliver ! And on Luongo,I think he is without a doubt ,the MOST over rated goalie in the modern era to date. There is not even a close second.
Newfie_Ranger
Wed Aug 18 2010 11:57 am EST
Richter was a rung above Curtis Joseph. Very solid goaltender, even a great goalie but noone is going to put him in the greats of all-time list. Broduer a generation from now will stll be discussed. I think Richter's value is overstated in the Rangers universe for the money performances that he delivered. But when I compare the great goalies of this era, Miller and Luongo are a rung above Lundqvist. Just my opinion but one that would receive a lot of support. Does that mean I would trade Lundqvist for them? No, because I think we can win with him and he is worth more to us then other goalies.
E
Wed Aug 18 2010 11:03 am EST
Hospo..........I agree 100%, I don't think there is any comparison between the two careers. People think of Brodeur with the Devils like they did with Dryden and the Habs. Team system vs talent ,you know. What kind of stats and career would Richter have had in NJ ?
Newfie_Ranger
Wed Aug 18 2010 10:26 am EST
JMO, but I honestly don't understand how anybody could pick Richter over Brodeur career wise..Brodeur was just to damn good, too consitent, too durable and too poised all the time..Flat out the better goalie....Now, if you wanna compare Ricter's best or best season with Brodeur's, then you have a totally different arguement..
Hospo
Wed Aug 18 2010 9:55 am EST
mf..............exactly my point.......I mean how can you play "better" than SRV ?
Newfie_Ranger
Wed Aug 18 2010 9:41 am EST
mf ... nice!! Carlos is the man! I've seen Santana, oh, about 30 times.
Zebop
Wed Aug 18 2010 8:53 am EST
Newfie_Ranger: ..... Jerry Garcia, Keith Richards, Carlos Santana, Jeff Beck, Stevie Ray Vaughn, (in no particular order)
mf
Wed Aug 18 2010 8:32 am EST
I always find that "ranking" or "comparing" great goaltenders ..........Sawchuck vs Plante.........Roy vs Brodeur.........is like comparing the great Rock Guitarists..........really, who is better Eric Clapton or Jimmy Page ?Both are great at what they do and have done but both are so different in how they did it. I think it all comes down to personal preference.
Newfie_Ranger
Wed Aug 18 2010 8:22 am EST
I am biased I hate the devils just like tdchi hates pittsburgh & others hate philty but Richter faced more shots in one period than I screwed my wifes sister did in the entire game. no one was getting to tee off from 10 feet away consistently like they did against Mike. over the entire career fatso is better but he should of taken the money & played in montreal his home town & favorite team as a kid but he didn't because of the defense in front of him. I would say that for most of his career fatso maybe faced 20 shots a game with 3 quality chances a game until the last few years when he has faced alot shots per game.
desi04
Wed Aug 18 2010 8:22 am EST
This is one of those questions that is tough to answer because you are comparing apples to oranges. Anyone who never saw both players play and understood the teams and systems that they played under will simply look at the stats and laugh. At the end of the day MARTY will go into the HOF and be considered one of the best goalies ever. I am able to detach my personally feelings when evaluating players and feel I am pretty objective in my assessment of them. There are many players that I hated with a passion that were great players and deserving of all of the accolades that they got. That said, I have always considered MARTY one of the most over-rated players in the history of the game. He played his entire career on a team that was focused on preventing quality scoring chances and eliminating rebound opportunities. It should be no surprise to anyone that his statistics are off the charts. Someone made the comment that RICHTER faced more quality scoring chances in a period then MARTY did an entire game. I would second that but I don't want to make this about RICHTER specifically. MARTY's average night was cakewalk compared to the rest of the goalies in the NHL. Most of the shots he faced were from bad angles and from beyond the faceoff circle. He rarely had to deal with shots and rebound opportunities from the slot. He rarely had to worry about odd man rushes or breakaways. Was it any wonder that when the Devils defense and system was going through transitions of players/coaches that MARTY's numbers looked pedestrian? MARTY was a very good goaltender who was capable of making spectacular saves. He may still have been a HOF caliber goaltender had he played on another team. BUT, the statistics that he put up would not have been possible on another team. He would have gone down as one of the better goaltenders in NHL history but he wouldn't have been considered one of the best to have ever played. RICHTER was a spectacular athlete and was capable of making insane saves. When he was at the top of his game he was as good as anyone that I've ever seen. Early in his career he struggled with lapses of concentration and he let in more then his fair share of stinkers. By the time the 94' Cup run rolled around he was entering his peak. His play that season through the World Cup in 96' was incredible. Unfortunately by that time the Rangers had fallen apart and were a defensive disaster. The rest of the league had embraced the trap and the Rangers were easy pickings. The Rangers team in front of him was PUTRID defensively the rest of his career. It got so bad that he was facing more odd man rushes in a period then most goalies saw in a week. The real killer to his career was injuries. He started suffering groin injuries in the beginning of 1996. That was a killer for his style of play. The effective end of his career was in 1999 when he had back and knee injuries. He has never healthy after that.
Vic
Wed Aug 18 2010 2:50 am EST
IMHO Richter was a very good goalie for most of his career. But it was only for, I would say, around 1-2 years when he IMO played at a spectacular top 1-2 level. Before and after that, he was IMO again more like a very good goalie, think like DiPietro when he was healty or something like that. But around 95' and 96', he was up there with the best I've ever seen. Then, also remember that Richter played far out from the net. Playing that style its impossible to save all pucks. All it takes is one player at the far post, a shot that misses the net and bounces out to that player or something and Richter wouldn't have a chance. That was the difference between "Richters generation" (Roy, Belfour, Ranford and co too) and the Hasek/Brouders of the league and the generation after them. As we have seen, you almost never get a "slamdunk" with a Hank in the net for example. Go back to the goalies of the 80's and 90's, you saw a 3-4 slamdunks per night.
Ola
Wed Aug 18 2010 2:42 am EST
This is exactly what Richter sacrificed by remaining in NYC as long as he did- solid lifetime-achievement numbers, his name in the same tier as Roy, Hasek, Belfour, etc. We should have a statue in his honor.
Messier11
Tue Aug 17 2010 9:11 pm EST
How would Richter have fared behind a defensive trap crap system like the Debs played? IMO, Richter was the better athlete, more talented goalie and, in the hypothetical, would have put up better numbers than Fatso in a Deb-like system. Plus, he wasn't boning his sister-in-law in between periods.
FerociousMonk
Tue Aug 17 2010 9:09 pm EST
Bob that's usually because they were TEAMS.
stevielegs
Tue Aug 17 2010 9:04 pm EST
I find it interesting that there would be any Richter v. Fatty arguments. If I am a Devils fan I am definitely looking at this with a WTF face. Broduer has been and is simply the better goalie. I am not trying to dog our guy but no one looking at things objectively is going to see it any other way. This is a guy who while winning monstrous games was also nothing even close to reliable in terms of durability. Fatty will one day walk off the ice and walk right into the Hall of Fame period. Look, I respect the guys accolades. I don't personally like him. He is smug blah blah blah but I can't see it any other way. Next we should compare Alex Karp. v. Scott Stevens.
E
Tue Aug 17 2010 8:15 pm EST
I still maintain the best way to build a team is from the net out. I've just been on too many hockey teams where our goalie has sucked and our team has gone nowhere, despite having great forward/defensive talent...case in point at the NHL level is the Flyers. As much as it pains me to say it, that was an awesome lineup, plain and simple...Carter, Richards, Gagne, Briere, Pronger, Timonen...and then the 'lesser' players...Van Rimmer, Hartnell, Giroux, Carle, Lieno, Coburn...But there was no denying their goalie was a POS. Leighton, no matter how you slice it, no matter how far he goes with the team, is an AHL goaltender. The Flyers won't win anything with him between the pipes...I guess you can argue a powerhouse team can make do with a mid-level goalie...but less than that? Nope. That's why I don't see San Jose making any great strides next year either...On BRODEUR - I'm not sure if those Devil cups would be there without him. Certainly, the shut-down defense helped. But there's no mistaking Uncle Daddy's talent when he was younger.. Not to be blasphemous, .I would actually lean toward saying he's the better of the two when compared to RICHTER(longevity excluded of course)...then again, who knows what Richter might have done, had he not gotten shelled so bad for so long. Richter in 1993-1994 was flat out awesome. But as the years went on, it was clear he couldn't move around as quick as he once could.
tdchi
Tue Aug 17 2010 4:09 pm EST
More teams have won cups in the last 20 years with middling goalies than with great, dominant ones. The Devils won system cups. The Red Wings won with second tier goalies. The teams winning the cup since the Rangers that needed Herculean goalie efforts are the Rangers and Colorado. The other teams either played stifling defense-first systems, or never ganve the opponents the puck (Detroit and Pittsburgh).
Bob
Tue Aug 17 2010 3:56 pm EST
Brodeur easily the better goalie over his career..Much more consistent and durable.
Hospo
Tue Aug 17 2010 3:43 pm EST
Rickety Richter v. Broduer. One thing I loathed was the way Richter coughed up juicy rebounds while Broduer smothered the puck and left you with no hope
E
Tue Aug 17 2010 3:32 pm EST
I agree Jim, I always thought that Richter was a better goalie because of our defense compared to the devils defense. Richter faced more quality scoring chances in one period than Brodeur did in the whole game.
desi04
Tue Aug 17 2010 3:25 pm EST
Agree on Roy. In general most teams that win cups could have won with probably half of the goalies in the league. take the Devils, was Brodeur a very good goalie? No matter how much I loathe him he clearly was. Saying that, would the Devils have been cup contenders if they had any of the other 10-15 top goalies in the league during their run, most likely yes . Would Brodeur have taken any of the 8th-16th teams in the league during those years to a cup? Probably not. A great goaltender makes it easier, but is not sufficient nor necessary to winning cups.
jimsherma
Tue Aug 17 2010 3:13 pm EST
WILDCARD: Essentially I agree with you but with one exception. Even great goaltenders go through ups and downs. Even great goaltenders look average at times. At the height of the trap era I would say that it was important to build your team from the Goaltender out. Not anymore. I think it is important to build your team up the middle now. Your top 2 Centers, top 2 defenders and your goaltender are all equally important now. If I had to pick 1 of them as the most important I would say #1 Center.
Vic
Tue Aug 17 2010 3:02 pm EST
JimSherma - Patrick Roy - montreal beating L.A Kings & TGO- he carried the canadians to cup wins only one I can think of . during that playoff run I think montreal won many of the games in O.T. Nice to be back parole violation will not happen again.
desi04
Tue Aug 17 2010 2:46 pm EST
Vic: I would say the same thing, but with one thing...the average goalie would ahve to be consistant....I think MANY teams have made it very deep into the playoffs each year, and to the finals and have won cups with a goalie who isnt great, HOWEVER, those guys in net, at elast in those years they won, that goalie was very consistant, no ups or downs. You cant have a guy who looks like a Vezna cadidate one night, and an ECHL backup the next...But i do think that a great team can make up for average gaoltending more often that a goalie can make up for a team...reason being if a team is great there are many players who can help the team win, its rare that they all have off nights, but your one goalie will have off nights.
Wildcard
Tue Aug 17 2010 2:31 pm EST
tdchi: LOL, Kovalchuk for The Monster.... and that was one I did. Guess that didn't work in my favor, eh?
rangerfan2000
Tue Aug 17 2010 2:30 pm EST
Count the Black 'n' Blueshirts in... 3rd time is the charm baby! - czirp@hotmail.com
Z
Tue Aug 17 2010 2:23 pm EST
If my choice is between having a great team with an average goalie or having and average team with a great goalie I would chose having a great team with an average goalie every time......
Vic
Tue Aug 17 2010 1:55 pm EST
jimsherma: I think my point was not that a netminder should be good enough to carry the tea that is no good. but if he is considered a great, or even very good netminder heshould be able to carry a team that is not great. A number of teams have made it to the finals with out a great team. They have a good first line and 2nd line, decent D and a goalie who was able to clean up their messes. I tinhk The ducks had that, the Oilers that one year, The canes (maybe more than once) Also, I am not sure Flurey could make it out fo the first round on a regular basis with out a powerhouse team in front of him.
Wildcard
Tue Aug 17 2010 1:50 pm EST
jim - i would argue that the SYSTEM & Brodeur got the Devils their cup wins...
josh29
Tue Aug 17 2010 1:49 pm EST
forgot the email - jsmithisnotmyrealname@yahoo.com
josh29
Tue Aug 17 2010 1:48 pm EST
tdchi - I'm in!
josh29
Tue Aug 17 2010 1:26 pm EST
In reference rto the discussion around Fleury and Price. Saying that they are "good enough" if a team is in front of them that can win a cup is all you can ask for. I'm trying to think of the last time a team that was not capable of winning a cup won one based on the goalie. I can see a goalie making a marginal team a play-off team and maybe steal a series or two, but carry a lousy team all the way to a cup? Giguerre in Anaheim maybe? Help me here.
jimsherma
Tue Aug 17 2010 1:16 pm EST
td: Do you allow trades?
RF4L
Tue Aug 17 2010 1:13 pm EST
E - Back?!? It never went anywhere! I got to admit, I had a few 'moments' we'll call them as a freshman commissioner...certifying the league and not realizing the draft occurred WITHIN 24 hours...and then the debacle over the Kovalchuk for Gustavsson trade...egad...but with my sophomore year ahead, I'm hoping we can iron out those kinks! Anyway...I'm going to set the league in motion this week and figure I'll give the 20 participants last year first dibs on spots...but I'm sure there will be more than one opening too. I'll be sending out a blanket e-mail to all who contact me(Dany, Rangerfan2000) and to anyone who PM's me. It's a good time and I'm definitely looking for a rebound! I was lucky to scrape into 12th place(I think) this year, after I forgot to rank players for the draft...what a disaster....hence why I'm not a fan of PRICE...he and DiPIETRO were my starting goalies...what a disaster.
tdchi
Tue Aug 17 2010 12:54 pm EST
Invite me back to the rfc league. I was dead last in last year's cause the draft went earlier than expected and I wasn't ready.. so I wanna redeem myself! dlukiw@yahoo.com
rangerfan2000
Tue Aug 17 2010 12:44 pm EST
I would like to take part in the fantasy league if there is an extra spot can send info to tkudlyk@yahoo.com
Danylo Halytskyj
Tue Aug 17 2010 12:34 pm EST
tdchi - glad to see the RFC will live....luckily for all participants, I will be in the league again and close to last, once again.
Tikkanen
Tue Aug 17 2010 12:23 pm EST
RFC fantasy league??? Are we going to bring it back??? Anybody???
E
Tue Aug 17 2010 12:15 pm EST
I will toss my 1.5 cents in...yes...1.5 cents, its not worth spending two cents....anyway. Price IMHO has not shown he is a guy I would want to "go with"...he hasnt really made me think he is that great...maybe with a great team in front of him he would be good enough, like teh Hawks last year. As for Fleury, he is better than Price, but again, if the team in front of him isnt great, he doesnt win a cup. His GAA and Save % is nothing great. He can steel games, and he can go for a stretch of time and be teh best player ont he team, but it seems for every great game he has, he has an equally weak one...there are games were the rest of the team needs to bail him out. In saying that, that waht a team is saposed to be, some days the goalie bails out the offense and defenders, some dayas the offense bails out the goalie...But i dont think either guy is really top 5...Fleury maybe....but not Price...I dont think many teams would trade their number one for him...
Wildcard
Tue Aug 17 2010 11:40 am EST
TDCHI - Yes, we need arguements! But, nerw ones! COunt me in on the RFC, need to rebound big time..Nad, let me get this straight, you said regarding Fleury "before them, Whitney and Gill. He's always had a strong defense"..Were't you one of the many around here that trashed Gill on end becasue of his pedestrain nature? :)...Giod, Iwish we had him...and truly hoe ther Bozo Brigade of Dolan, sather and Torts wake-up and realize the need for a reliable, physical D-man...Scratch that, we got Emminger...!
Hospo
Tue Aug 17 2010 11:08 am EST
RF4L - Come on! It's slow season! We need arguments! My distaste for FLEURY, while somewhat rooted in my abject hatred for the Penguins, stems more from the notion that he should have never been a first-overall pick. I will admit, Fleury has moments where he looks spectacular. But those moments are also peppered with ones where he looks like an AHL goalie. Mind you, this is a guy who has Orpik, Gonchar, Letang and Goligoski playing in front of him; and before them, Whitney and Gill. He's always had a strong defense. Yet still, his GAA never seems to drop below 2.60...and his save percentage, while not bad, isn't anything to write home about. And about the cup...I'll point out that Neimi has one too...but that didn't stop the Hawks from kicking him to the curb...In Price I see another high-first round pick that was wasted on a goalie who has fleeting moments of grandeur...but on a note of personal disclosure, my disdain for Price is very fantasy related, in that he bombed as my top goalie in the RFC league last year. Now, he's dead to me....BTW....In the coming week, I'll be contacting all the players from last year's RFC Fantasy Hockey League. If any of you played last year, check your Yahoo accounts over the next week for the sign up. This year, I hope to have an organized draft...in other words, I'll make sure everyone has their ratings done before certifying the league...several of us got pinched bad last year(myself included)...for those interested in a spot or returning players who have changed their e-mails, ship me an missive at xitriton@yahoo.com. I'm certain of three spots out of 20(Icy, QPR and Terriblow). I hope to have everything set by Septemberish.
tdchi
Tue Aug 17 2010 6:43 am EST
it's not that funny considering how the last 16 years have gone, ................10 of which belong to the Teflon reign of error. ....'this one will last a lifetime' and ' now i can die in peace', just might be true for , hopefully not for 54 years. ....38 to go?.........
stevielegs
Tue Aug 17 2010 4:46 am EST
CM- Yeah its funny. I've thought the same thing too several times. Like if someone in 97' had told me that in 2003 Lindros, Jagr, Bure, Nedved, Kovalev, Holik, Messier and co all would be playing for the Rangers AT THE SAME TIME I wouldn't have believed my ears. At the same time, if someone would have told me that roster would have missed the PO's I would have been less suprised... ;) Hm, I wonder what players will have played for us in say 10 years from now? AO? Crosby? Malkin?
Ola
Mon Aug 16 2010 11:26 pm EST
At first I thought it would be cool, but then you'd be happy,thinking the Rangers had just won the cup, only to be rudely awakened to the reality of the situation and have to get a Daily Ranger history lesson. I imagine your thoughts would be: "What? Eric Lindros? Messier went where? Bryan Trottier was our coach? We paid how much for Wade Redden? Oh the horror, the horror!"
ColoradoMark
Mon Aug 16 2010 11:12 pm EST
On the Today Show this morning was a woman who had that memory damage (Like in: 50 First Dates) and she couldn't remember anything past 1994. No word on her NHL affiliation, though ;-)
ColoradoMark
Mon Aug 16 2010 8:24 pm EST
td: You're comparison in terms of what you think re Price to Fleury explains it all. IMO, your opinion of the latter is all wet - he's a quality goaltender with a cup already on his resume and his role in getting his name on the cup was significant. Your hatred of all things Pittsburgh is both consistent and noteworthy (I have equal feelings when it comes to the Flyers), but sometimes it truly clouds your judgement, I think. But no need to engage in a prolonged argument here - lets agree to disagree, but keep an eye on how Price's career progresses. I am not about to proclaim him to be Patrick Roy II, but I do believe he's got the abillity to be a star goaltender. However, having that skillset and realizing it are 2 very different things....
RF4L
Mon Aug 16 2010 6:43 pm EST
RF4L – It's all subjective...I guess the Canadians obviously think he's a franchise player...I think about as highly about Price as I do FLEURY on Pittsburgh, which is to say not that much. He got beaten out by HALAK, who while he was great down the stretch, still isn't in the category of the elites in the NHL, IMO...Ken – Two things I'm saying about Pittsburgh – I don't see their team as being any more improved then last year and the gem of their farm system is probably on the level of Grachev. Read into it what you want. I think Pittsburgh's weakness will be their ultimate downfall. In other words, by relying almost solely on their top three as producers, they're not going to go very far...Chicago at least has a boatload of talent that they're bringing onto the team this year...and IMO, will go deeper and farther than Pittsburgh...wager anyone?
tdchi
Mon Aug 16 2010 6:33 pm EST
gross..."...While I was out, the Rangers and the Hartford Wolf Pack (AHL) announced an ECHL affiliation with the Greenville (S.C) Road Warriors. Today, Road Warriors president and GM Neil Smith announced the Road Warriors would also be affiliated with the Flyers and their AHL squad, the Phantoms."....so that's where he is.......
stevielegs
Mon Aug 16 2010 3:41 pm EST
;-)
Vic
Mon Aug 16 2010 3:38 pm EST
VIC - Hah, pretty damn funny! what i get for skipping over the video..
Hospo
Mon Aug 16 2010 3:33 pm EST
HOSPO: Watch the clip......
Vic
Mon Aug 16 2010 3:30 pm EST
VIC - never said he can't be a good player..I actually like his saize and the type of D-man he is supposed to be..BUT Just not all hopped up about rushing him to NY and have my doubts about how good he will be in NY this year..No sense in raushing a kid who can learn more to help the future of a team who's present is going to suck no matter what..
Hospo
Mon Aug 16 2010 3:25 pm EST
HOSPO: Since McSsiah was such a big topic here a few weeks ago I spent some time reviewing clips of him. I have to admit that he is very impressive. He can do things that I've never seen another Rangers Dman ever do. I think this clip best illustrates the kind of player that he can be (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s8IVeqZQeYQ&NR=1).
Vic
Mon Aug 16 2010 2:32 pm EST
tdchi..........I have to comment on your blasting of the Penn's farm system. My comment is simply that A) who cares when you have the best young players in the game on the varsity (would you rather develop them or just have them burst onto the scene....hmmmm).........and B) it's just common sense that when you put all of your energies into drafting homegrown superstars, that you would need to trade your lower and mid-level picks and prospects to fill in around them, provide a veteran presence, and win while you have the opportunity........Of course, they need to be paid as well and eat up your cap so.........I don't get the argument? Are you trying to say that the NYR farm system is more impressive than that of the Penns in 2010? What difference does that make and what does it indicate for the future success of the big clubs? I don't get it. What's the point? If I have a stable full of pure thorobred stallions winning triple crowns, but my feeder stables have nothing but riding ponies.....while you have no thorobreds, but a good feeder stable of mediocre horses with no shot to ever win anything should I be impressed, jealous, envious of your feeder stable? You are comparing apples to oranges. It means nothing that we have more or better prospects or that they have lesser wingers.........they have built that team around their centers and their goalie and it has worked has it not?
Ken
Mon Aug 16 2010 11:09 am EST
york: Yes, scoring is higher in the Q, but let's not forget the age difference between Staal and the kid. I haven't seen him play, so I'll reserve a more definitive judgement call for now.
RF4L
Mon Aug 16 2010 11:08 am EST
this wasn't pretty when sutter blindsided him.....http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=meDcW5YYe4M
stevielegs
Mon Aug 16 2010 10:50 am EST
Ken- What do I know, its kind of a touchy area and it feels kind of "shameful" to speculate on it. But around that year, all of a sudden, many Russians looked pretty big and played with a lot of emotions in Europe. Look, I don't at all think that its far fetched to speculate that the doping controll in Russia can all of a sudden look the other way for a while and everyone would know about it. All it takes is a corrupt person somewhere in the chain. Like Russias cross country skiing team had a helluva lot of trouble at the time too for example, and the entire national team was threatened to be locked out of the Olympics because so many was caught in international events -- so its definitely not unusual in Russia with doping. Take Maxim Rybin. Drafted by Anaheim. At the age of 20 y/o he was 5'9 165 while playing in NA. That year he played at 190 lbs and looked like a dog with rabies on the ice. He was sturdy as hell too, would probably have sent the Brendan Morrows of the NHL flying if he had a chance to go shoulder to shoulder with them. There were also some reports about Chere's doctor and some other officials being banned for life after the event because of organized doping. And if I remember correctly Putin made a statement that it was time to take controll of doping in the country (but that was more in regards to the skiiers problems). Anyway, did Chere play well because of doping? Truth to be told, I don't think it had a big impact, if anything I think it just might possibly have hurried up his development process a bit. The kid was very lean and didn't have much muscle at all at the time he past.
Ola
Mon Aug 16 2010 10:41 am EST
KEN it's the curse of sather and / or dolan. Until they are gone, the outlook is not bright.
stevielegs
Mon Aug 16 2010 10:36 am EST
RF4L and York......Don't know much about the Couturier kid but as far as his #s being inflated in the Q.....this is usually true, I know that much. But, that said, Crosby came from the Q as did many of the greatest NHL scorers of all time...........Ola, do you think Cherry's sudden blossoming right before he passed may have had something to do with the drugs? Performance enhancing drugs have a way of producing sudden greatness in athletes. Just a thought and we'll never know the answer.........stevielegs....I thought the same thing when reading the posts that were defending the NYR drafting and development system, saying we DID get our #1 sniper, our elite forward (as in Cherry).....One poster wrote that Cherry was our Bure or Kovalchuk and I thought the very same thing you wrote. The REAL Kovy, proven and in his prime is still available and we don't want him......lol. Nice to think Cherry would have been a player like that but c'mon.....Just like Blackburn and Cherneski were hall of famers taken from us by the "curse" right? C'mon. You just can't make a statement like that because there was never any indication that Cherry was as good as Kovalchuk or Bure and I'm 99% sure that if he played in NY, he would have proven that himself but who knows?
Ken
Mon Aug 16 2010 10:31 am EST
so Gaborik, Lundqvist, Propal, and many others playing hurt means they were ok. If the coach is forcing guys as low as Chritiansen to play hurt thru intimidation, is that an indicator or an exaggerator? He coached with a bad hip, now that's leadership as he threw every player on that team under the bus at least once. Who cares about what the other teams have, don't have, do or don't do? It's about what the NYR are. If they can't make the playoffs this upcoming season, heads at the top should roll, along with players. It starts with the coach , since genius is the teflon gm.
stevielegs
Mon Aug 16 2010 10:21 am EST
Hospo: Whaddaya wanna bet on this year? Double or nothing!
RF4L
Mon Aug 16 2010 10:21 am EST
I'll take Antropov, Kane and Peverly over our top 3 centers even without Bryan Little.
Danylo Halytskyj
Mon Aug 16 2010 10:19 am EST
RF4L - The same way he knows McDonagh is the messiah of the Rangers defense or at least be a rich man's Mike Kommisarek!..Just busting your chops TDCHI, after all, you did win our bet last year! Has RF4L paid you the beers yet--or did I forget to tell him I transferred the rights to previous winnings?
Hospo
Mon Aug 16 2010 10:06 am EST
td: Gotta take you to task: How the heck do you know Price will never be a star goalie? What do you know that many others don't? Twenty-three years old (today) and you've laid out his NHL future.
RF4L
Mon Aug 16 2010 9:58 am EST
I can fully understand WHY some of these news agencies are picking the Rangers for 13th. I don't agree with it at all though...Reading through some of them, I was amazed by how little was mentioned about the center situation...instead there seems to be a reoccurring focus on GABORIK'S health.Sure, it should be a concern. But the guy played a heavy season last year, and more-or-less did it unscathed...another thing...seems the Rangers were among the lowest in the league with overall loss of man power per game...And I think that has a bit to do with Ramsey and the medical staff...knowing when to ease off players and whatnot...just speculation though...about the Rankings...I'm dumbfounded by ANY writer that picks Atlanta over the Rangers. Without Bryan Little(who remains unsigned), the team is arguably worse up the middle than the Rangers...and count me as one who believes those Hawks castoffs won't have nearly the success in their new home...Oh...and they have no top goalie...Also...this insistence that Carolina is going to make this rise through the east...yeah...really? This is a team with 10 forwards signed, several of whom are borderline AHLers? Come on...Tampa is interesting...but again...no goaltending...Florida and the Islanders are two other joke clubs, although I do see the Islanders making some inroads...And a team that will be noticeably worse next year? Montreal. Let's face it: Price ain't a star goalie. Period...I find it hilarious that SI can rave on so much about Ryan MILLER, and how he'll save the Sabres from an offseason when they did little...yet no real mention of Lundqvist, and the impact of bringing in a serviceable backup...and lastly, how do the Penguins improve so markedly with MIHALEK and MARTIN?!? Neither has the cannon they lost in GONCHAR...and the team STIIL doesn't have a serviceable wing in the entire organization...those of you grousing over GRACHEV'S development last year...well, imagine if Grachev was the ONLY prospect in the system...well...that's the situation in Pittsburgh these days, as TANGRADI hasn't shown he can do much of anything as the AHL level...I do agree the Rangers haven't shown any tangible improvements, other than to bring in some serious snarl and a bunch of gigantic question marks. I was a little more optimistic before WHITE was brought in, since I figured that would give three spots to rookies in the lineup. Now I'm thinking there will be two; maybe only one. At this moment, I put them in a battle with Toronto for the final playoff seed in the east...Toronto is a team, IMO, with just as many question marks; many of them banking on how young players make the jump to the next level(Kadri, D'Amingo, Bozak, Schenn, et cetera)...Likewise for the Rangers. The top question in my mind is which ANISIMOV shows up to camp? Will it be one that has put on weight and gained confidence? Or will it be the one that needs more coddling in a back line role? Next: What the young defensive corps does. If STAAL, MDZ, and GILROY all progress to the next level, I don't think defense will be nearly the concern some have here...Also, I've been on record saying McDONAGH will not only make the team, but also be a component that was dreadfully missing last year....Third, what MZA does. If he turns out to be a 30-goal scorer, I don't think we'll have to worry as much about secondary scoring(probably the third largest concern on the club last year behind the void at center and the lack of crease-clearer)...and fourth, the FROLOV factor: Again, if the guy comes in and scores 30 goals --something he's proven he can do even on a weak team --we're going to see a better Rangers club...Lastly, I'd say chemistry will be a big plus on the side of this team. There are plenty of returning players...The defense is basically the same...the only real change was to fourth line(the loss of Shelley) and the well..."loss" of Jokienen(addition by subtraction...though I would have taken him at $3 million instead of White at $2.3 million)...Overall, the addition of a good back up I see saving us at least five games in the 'win' category, which should at least get this team playoff bound. I know the pessimists here think otherwise...but for once, the lack of serious tinkering(whether by default or by design) will ultimately help the club improve its fortunes.
tdchi
Mon Aug 16 2010 9:57 am EST
Re lowered cap: 2 things...1) This won't happen under the current CBA unless the revenues support it - if it happens via the new CBA (as LB is actually reporting) it will come with solutions to existing contracts. I suspect it will be a percentage drop for all contracts equal to the percentage drop for the cap - LB's figures of 59.4 being reduced to 51.4 equates to approximately 15% - everyone's salary would drop by 15%, thereby eliminating the need for all the scrambling to stay at the new lower cap. This would be negotiated. 2) This entire scenario is conjecture on LB's part and therefore, it's validity is very suspect.
RF4L
Mon Aug 16 2010 9:07 am EST
mf- If Bettman can get the PA to agree to a lower cap; you can rest assure that they will roll back existing contracts. Why? If not there would be a huge mess with a ton of NHL quality players being sent to the AHL and it would be extremely unfair to all free agents the summer the new CBA was signed. Like imagine all 30 teams needing to dump like 8m of cap space? What would happened? Nobody could afford to sign the free agents, AND a bunch of NHLers with existing contracts would be dumped in the AHL in favor of minimumwage career AHLers? Who benefits from that? A handful of players with long contracts, on the cost of the league being a joke and many other players getting their careers ruined. Believe me that there would be a general rollback IF, and thats a big IF of course, the NHL gets the PA to agree on a lower cap.
Ola
Mon Aug 16 2010 7:51 am EST
Sports Illustrated has the Rangers ranked 22nd overall in their late summer 'power rankings' effort. That sounds about right - in other words, no progress from last season to this one. http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2010/writers/allan_muir/08/13/offseason.rankings/index.html
RF4L
Mon Aug 16 2010 7:38 am EST
Ola: The players and the NHLPA will not roll back $1 dollar on any contracts already signed.. Buttman will continue to destroy this league.. On the bright side, if he fucks things up bad enough, a new league may start.... Now thats free market optimism....
mf
Mon Aug 16 2010 12:42 am EST
Mf- yeah, but any lowering of the cap will be followed/proceeded by a general rollback of all existing contracts -- like last lockout (24%). They can't lower the cap with like 8m without doing that.
Ola
Sun Aug 15 2010 10:08 pm EST
http://www.prohockeynews.com/index.shtml
mf
Sun Aug 15 2010 9:50 pm EST
OLA: Have you seen or read anything on this kid? ........ Swedish-born left wing ""Gabriel Landeskog,"" who starred for the OHL's Kitchener Rangers last season, will take part in the camp. The 6-foot, 200-pound left wing was third among first-year OHL players with 24 goals and 46 points last season......... http://www.nhl.com/ice/news.htm?id=535907&navid=DL|NHL|home
mf
Sun Aug 15 2010 9:21 pm EST
OLA: did you read this in todays NY Post ? Seems Butthead want to lower the cap. I wish this guy would just go away so that I'm not temped to with him harm... Ah f_K it! Buttman, drop dead, take Glennie boy with you.. ......... http://www.nypost.com/p/sports/more_sports/head_less_icemen_led_to_slaughter_L4JUI3SmOh3OO48JJKj9zN/1#ixzz0wgA1TXux
mf
Sun Aug 15 2010 8:56 pm EST
CM the guy makes statements that are factually false as far as I can tell. He had 7D men plenty of times, Gilroy, Heineken, Erickson, Sanguetti, & Potter all played with the magnificent 5 , which could have been 7 instead of his 4 minute 4th line for most of the season. I'm still trying to figure what he has learned, from his mistakes that he admits to and the ones he doesn't ........and his assistant Sullivam along with Schonefeld. It was a very unimpressive 1st season as head coach.
stevielegs
Sun Aug 15 2010 7:15 pm EST
RF4L - as a fantasy player Staal is not worth much as he does not put up many points or pims. Gabby and Hank are the only two players worth anything in a fantasy league and maybe Frolov if he regains his scoring touch.
Danylo Halytskyj
Sun Aug 15 2010 6:14 pm EST
E _ what a load of garbage..especially given that early in the week I read that THN had the Rangers pagged for 13th in the EAST..see http://www.thehockeynews.com/articles/34718-The-Hockey-News-201011-NHL-regular-season-predictions-No-13.html..somebody's gos som splainin to do...Personally I agree with RF4L, a D is about rioght..this team is atrocious.,...Hell, ig a kid fresh out of college like McDoughnut the Messiah is een as taking a spot in the top 6, you know the team is in shambles...
Hospo
Sun Aug 15 2010 3:14 pm EST
E: I don't know what THN uses as criteria for their fantasy grading, but a B?? If they are a B, what are the Capitals or the Flyers? Hell, what's Tampa and Atlanta? I give the Rangers a D- and the only reason they escape a failing grade is because of the presence of Lundvqist, Gaborik and Staal. The rest is just average or worse (and I'm not including the prospects because it's highly unlikely any will make the team, let alone make a difference).
RF4L
Sun Aug 15 2010 1:00 pm EST
THN has released their fantasy outlook for the NYR on THN.com: gone – Steve Valiquette, Aaron Voros, P-A Parenteau, Jody Shelley, Alex Auld, Olli Jokinen, Bobby Sanguinetti, Anders Eriksson, Enver Lisin Incoming – Todd White, Alexander Frolov, Steve Eminger, Derek Boogaard, Martin Biron, Mats Zuccarello-Aasen Ready for full time – Only two youngsters have a real shot at a roster spot, although Evgeny Grachev will get a long look in camp. A spot is likely Zuccarello-Aasen’s for the taking – the small, skilled late-bloomer led the Swedish Elite League in points and was third in goals. He’ll start on the third line and if there is early success, he could move into the top six. Defenseman Ryan McDonagh turned pro this summer and should land a regular spot, one that could open up if New York decides to shed salary and buries Wade Redden and his contract in the minors. McDonagh holds some fantasy value in the PIM category. Fantasy Outlook – The players on their way out are not as good as those on their way in, so the product on the ice for this season is an upgrade. The system is also fairly solid in terms of offensive prospects with fantasy upside. Still, a playoff spot is by no means a guarantee and there doesn’t seem to be greatness in the Rangers’ future. They seem to be a team destined to finish anywhere from 10th to 20th in the league year in and year out. Fantasy Grade: B- (last year was B)
E
Sun Aug 15 2010 12:12 pm EST
Torts and Sather are very similar. If they have a strong team with very good players they look like they know what they're doing. Once they have a team that has some weaknesses to work with they don't seem to have any good answers. There are coaches who have shown they can get a team to play at a higher level than the sum of their parts. Neither Torts nor Sather would be mentioned in the same sentence as Herb Brooks, Bob Johnson or Scotty Bowman. As Long as the Rangers have these guys running the show this team will continue the way it has unless some of the prospects turn out to be perennial all stars.
wally5460
Sun Aug 15 2010 12:10 pm EST
Stevie- That was the gist of my complaint about Torts and Sather a month ago. I thought he was going to be Mr. Accountable and use the Wolfpack like a farm team should be used if you aren't going to carry 7 d-men. There were no bodies in the stands pushing the guys on the ice.Bass Ackwards!
ColoradoMark
Sun Aug 15 2010 12:08 pm EST
And as I said last summer, the time to acquire Richards was last summer, when he was coming off an injury-plagued lousy season when his value was at an all-time low. I knew he would bounce back because he is a professional who lives and breathes hockey. Confirmed bachelor who wants no distractions while he is playing in the NHL. He will have another killer year, especially in the last year of his contract before becoming an UFA. Dallas will trade him for a good amount at the trade deadline if they aren't in contention. He's a prideful guy who wants to prove that he is not only worth the money he is currently being paid, but how much he will command next summer.
ColoradoMark
Sun Aug 15 2010 12:02 pm EST
I love all the talk about Richards becoming our #1 center. Obviously, I would like nothing more than to see him in ranger blue. One thing, though. It ain't happening before the season starts, that's for sure. Not even mentioning our cap situation, the Stars are holding their training camp in PEI. Sure, Steve Ott is from Summerside, but the main event is Brad Richards. It would be a marketing nightmare if they were to trade him before that.
ColoradoMark
Sun Aug 15 2010 10:40 am EST
"As for the competition, the man behind the bench concluded that he has no illusions about the campaign ahead. "It's going to be a dogfight for us!"....at least most times he's dressed appropriately ;-)
stevielegs
Sun Aug 15 2010 10:09 am EST
HOSPO , health permitting, read his 2 part interview with' The Maven', the only thing he's thinks he did wrong was keep guys in the lineup too long, but no luxury for a 7 th D. ....want to buy a bridge? ......sather and him, perfect together.......
stevielegs
Sun Aug 15 2010 9:24 am EST
Pure idiocy by TORTS..The Rangers were the 2nd worst team in the NHL for about a three month period last year..and Del Zotto probably the worst defensive player in the league...Of course, he could and should have been taken out for many dfifferent purpose..Tortotella just blew it, like he did so many things...But his ego want Del Zoito and his offense in trher..
Hospo
Sun Aug 15 2010 8:23 am EST
speaking of 7, why have the NYR refused to carry let alone play 7 D, especially with their crew?......"... on Del Zotto......Tortorella: "From the middle of the season toward the end, I wished that I could have taken him out of the lineup (for rest and rehabilitation purposes) a little, but I didn't have the luxury to bring anybody up."......
stevielegs
Sun Aug 15 2010 8:10 am EST
7 out of their 10 are centers, and then there is Richards......http://espn.go.com/blog/DallasStars/post/_/id/3188/brad-richards-ranked-28th-in-thns-top-50......
stevielegs
Sun Aug 15 2010 7:59 am EST
"The situation with the PA is the equivalent of situation with the Rangers, where Erik Christensen, Vinny Prospal and Todd White are the leading candidates to center the team's first line -- well meaning, somewhat productive, but hardly a match lining up against Sidney Crosby." ..................."........... It is, however, indicative of the headless operation that seems simply to be awaiting the slaughter in the next round of collective bargaining two years hence. This is what happens when the union spends its resources looking behind and fighting old battles instead of preparing for the future and a new engagement against an all-powerful commissioner who remains ruthlessly committed to his vision of a hard-cap, lowest-common-denominator league." Read more: http://www.nypost.com/p/sports/more_sports/head_less_icemen_led_to_slaughter_L4JUI3SmOh3OO48JJKj9zN/1#ixzz0wgA1TXux
stevielegs
Sun Aug 15 2010 3:07 am EST
Fred- Nah, of course not. Just saying, before I saw Marc Staal or Henrik Lundqvist in the NHL I knew they would be good NHLers; of different kinds of course. I was pretty critical of Chere, and posted that on here, for a long time. He had god given talent, but he also had big issues. NO DOUBT. But he without any single doubt had his breakthrough a couple of months before he past, and I posted about that too at this place. He went from a prodigy kid with big issues to a hockeyplayer with a purpose. At that point there was NO DOUBT again that he would at the worst have become a star in the NHL. Why does this matter? Geeks like we are we will be talking about our draft record back and forth 1000's of times. I am not a big fan of Gordie Clark -- although I never would deny that he doesn't seem like at the worst a competent "scout" who can make solid DP's -- but Chere should be chalked down as a pick that would have been good. At least not the opposite.
Ola
Sat Aug 14 2010 8:17 pm EST
guess we'll never know what "Cherry" would have done for us....kind of a no brainer argument since he died!
MelvilleFred
Sat Aug 14 2010 5:25 pm EST
RF: the kid looks good, albeit several years away from the NHL.. Too bad we never pick first, probably wont in our lifetimes ...... "they call it mediocrity, yah!" (to the tune of, mellow yellow by donovan)
mf
Sat Aug 14 2010 1:15 pm EST
Stevie where does anyone say Cherry makes this team a contender? No where, but nice of you to make shit up to try and make your point valid which it still isn't...........................RF4L Stall didn't play in the Q and you know goal and point totals are always higher in the Q than the OHL and WHL.
York18
Sat Aug 14 2010 11:52 am EST
mf: I'm liking more and more the sounds of this Couturier kid. He's big, strong, mobile and skilled. That article cites, once again, the scouts comparing him to Jordan Staal which I sorta get in that the kid's size and skating ability seems to compare favourably to Staal. However, he sure seems to have considerable more offensive skill than Staal. The most points Staal ever put up in junior was 69 and the most goals 28 and that happened as a 20 year old. Meanwhile, Couturier as a 17 year old, scored 41 goals and 96 points. That's a significant difference. I think perhaps a better comparison is that he's a combination of Jordan and Eric Staal and if so, hell, what a prospect. It will be interesting to see how he does this year, his 3rd year of junior (he went from 9 goals and 31 points to that great year last season - effectively tripling his stats). He was also an incredible +62 and I guess that's what the scouts are focusing on. That's amazing for a number 1 scorer, even if the team he played for was very good (and you gotta believe a big part of the reason the Drummondville Voltigeurs were so good was due to him. He'd be a nice fit in the Rangers system, wouldn't he? A viable number 1 center prospect. How unique!
RF4L
Sat Aug 14 2010 11:34 am EST
sorry but all this fantasy that Chere would have made this team a contender, than what would Kovalchuk do?
stevielegs
Sat Aug 14 2010 11:16 am EST
http://www.nhl.com/ice/news.htm?id=535907
mf
Sat Aug 14 2010 9:40 am EST
mf maybe that is sather's plan for himself , the hell etc part ;-).....that could be his fantasy for his next life. Meanwhile he has the NYR & their fans in his hell...... and he already sucks...........
stevielegs
Sat Aug 14 2010 8:34 am EST
Zherdev, a #4 pick during a strong draft year signs with Philly for $2million..... Uh, because the coach & or the GM had communication issues with him ? This team sucks, the mangement sucks ...... With the benefit of hindsight, allow me to "trip" for a minute ...... We resigned Zherdev, Boston being over the cap, we somehow acquired Savard (maybe Dubi or Cally and next years 1st went the other way) We now have Savard centering Drury/Zherdev on the 2nd line .... Our first line being Frolov/ (fill in the blank) Gabby ....... Redden is gone, Rozi is gone, and we imported a rental D'man to plug the hole ....... Young suspect defense, yes ...... but now we have 2 lines, and the proper personel on the 3rd & 4th lines ..... Sather, you suck cocks in hell !
mf
Sat Aug 14 2010 8:14 am EST
stevie.......Sather has a lifetime job with eternal gushing performance reviews from his boss no matter what he does. He's also old, rich and living on the past now 20 years running. There's no way he does much research. Thank god he was smart enough to hire Gordie Clark, but they need so much more than that. I wish Gordie had an opportunity to pick top 1-3 for two good draft years while Sather did his job and cleared out the rest of his mistakes. Clark picking from the middle of the pack and Sather letting the fans suffer while only time corrects his mistakes is an agonizingly slow way to crawl out of this mess. Besides, in two years, Sather will just blow the cap on new mistakes. He has passed on every opportunity to pick a clear path and go at it 100%, instead choosing a safe road every time.
Ken
Sat Aug 14 2010 4:19 am EST
York- agreed. Chere should have been a top pick, 3/5 or something, I don't remember who was available. But it was not like AO dropping, or even Backstrom dropping.
Ola
Fri Aug 13 2010 11:48 pm EST
RF4L- I think you are thinking of Zaborsky that was traded for minor league defenseman Matt McCue. Skokan is Slovakian and played at Rimouski. He didn't get offered a contract, so he might as well have been traded. Iguess I'm just "dinking" with particulars that don't matter!
ColoradoMark
Fri Aug 13 2010 9:57 pm EST
stevie - I bet Glennie was on Russian websites more than 5 times checking out the stats - if you know what I mean. It can get cold in Banff!
NYStranger
Fri Aug 13 2010 2:19 pm EST
Ola what I found odd about cherry was he didn't have a laser beam of a wrister, nor a howitzer of a slapper, he wasn't the fastest skater, nor the best puck handler. He did have a deceptive release on his shot which fooled goalies and he was damn accurate like few can be. He could dangle when he had to and did going coast to coast. What he had that all great goal scorers have that are money is the will to score when he wanted and he liked scoring.
York18
Fri Aug 13 2010 2:19 pm EST
RF4L: I agree, it LOOKS like Sather has stepped aside in that area. There were rumors that Sather wanted to spend less time away from the family, and that lead to rumors that he would retire. Perhaps those rumors were half true. He wants less to deal with, so maybe the area he felt easiest and "safest" to turn over was teh darfting to Clark. We dont know what kind of behind the scenes stuff he has stopped doing and turned over to the Assistant GM, and or Mess. He may look things over and have a final say, but not do the "leg work" for day to day things. Of course we may never find out. But it IS a possibility...hell even his Free agency was difrent this year...perhaps he is taking a less hands on role with that as well.
Wildcard
Fri Aug 13 2010 12:03 pm EST
tdchi- nah, I don't buy that regards Chere. He wasn't top notch top 3 materia when we drafted him. He was I dont know how to put it, maybe "MONEY" is a good word to describe him. Like nifty like hell, he just got it done. Knew how to get goals scored. But in terms of raw talent he was pretty far behind AO and the likes. That along with the Russian factor etc and it wasn't strange that he dropped. I mean Grachev and Anisimov dropped more then he did for sure, both were without any single doubt 1st round talents.
Ola
Fri Aug 13 2010 11:55 am EST
stevie: I have no idea what Sather does or doesn't do when it comes to decision making when selecting these kids. His ability at this crucial aspect of managing was being questioned long before he came to NY. I truly think the man's ego gets in his way at times - he, for whatever particular reason at any given time, feels one kid over the next is the right way to go, regardless of what his scouting staff may be saying and because HE thinks that and HE is such a knowledgeable hockey man, HE goes with his decision. I am hoping that what appears to having occurred since Maloney left is actually happening, which is Gordie Clark is making these sort of decisions now and Clark sure seems infiinitely more knowledgeable than Sather when it comes to appraising these kids. Obviously, time will tell - I believe Clark stepped in for the 2008 draft which at this point is shaping up to be perhaps the best Ranger draft in many many years.
RF4L
Fri Aug 13 2010 11:47 am EST
and I am of the firm believe the genius does not do enough research or investigating of any players. Like that bs he was in Russia 5 times checking the kid out. He checks the weather for fishing and golf. The rest he is not nearly thorough enough, whether kids or vets. He fly fishes from the seat of his pants and his ego.
stevielegs
Fri Aug 13 2010 11:42 am EST
Speaking of lost draft years, the 06 year, with the trading of Sanguinetti, means only 1 player will realized - AA. OMG, that's 2 players in 2 years (assuming Hagelin makes it) in 13 selections. Sather truly sucks, doesn't he?
RF4L
Fri Aug 13 2010 11:41 am EST
not so sure Cherr would have made it in the NHL physically. Talent was not the question, but other qualities were. Leave it to lucky glennie to continue his mostly unlucky 1st round picks.
stevielegs
Fri Aug 13 2010 11:40 am EST
Almost equally as maddening as the Cherepanov tragedy in terms of it's impact on the Rangers feeder system is the pathetic drafting overall that year. Cherepanov in the first, Antoine Lafluer (huh? who?) in the 2nd, no 3rd or 4th round picks (couldn't be bothered to dig up the associated trades but it's likely more than safe to say the players coming the other way are long gone), Max Campbell in the 5th, Carl Hagelin in the 6th, David Skokan (recently traded for a minor league d-man) and Danny Hobbs in the 7. Hagelin remains a possibility - if he does make it, he'll likely become what Glen Sather appears wholly capable of drafting: A bottom 6 forward (and there's nothing wrong with a 6th rounder becoming that sort of NHLer, either). Almost a lost year, in other words.
RF4L
Fri Aug 13 2010 11:32 am EST
td: Re the talent available in the 04 draft, when the Rangers have an abundance of picks: Well, maybe so, but doesn't that just fit the Ranger MO? Acquire a slew of picks in an unusually weak draft year. Just as they may be finally posed to finish in the bottom 3 and perhaps even nail the number 1 overall pick in a year where there isn't a clear cut blue chipper (05 was Crosby, 06 was Johnson, 07 was Kane, 08 was Stamkos, 09 Tavares and 10 Hall). Geeesh...it's a curse dammit, a curse!
RF4L
Fri Aug 13 2010 11:30 am EST
Cherry was under contract to the KHL which was the number one reason teams were passing on him. They also weren't 100% sure he wanted to come over. Jagr spoke so highly of NY while they played together Cherry couldn't wait to get here. Anyone who is questioning if this kid was going to be a star or not never saw him play. The kid was a beast with the puck, he had a shot that was just sweet and he had wheels and stickhandling to boot. This kid was breaking records of stars, not mediocre players but Bure and Ovy. His passing put this teams rebuild back about five years.
York18
Fri Aug 13 2010 10:49 am EST
Teams passed on Cherepanov for 2 reasons.......the Russian issue and the fact that some thought he was lazy. Of course, young kids with congenital heart conditions are often thought to be "lazy." The blame hereshould rest on those who are supposed to diagnose these things during physicals.
Bob
Fri Aug 13 2010 9:50 am EST
Cherepanov died because he was taking coramine stimulant regularly. He had toxic amounts of it in his blood stream. He very well could have been clean during the NHL combine but could have begun again the very next day. Who knows how intense the use of performance enhancing drug testing in the KHL is. If he indeed had myocardtis as the autopsy states then the NHL and the KHL blew it on testing it. The combination of myocarditis and coramine was a lethal cocktail. Look all kinds of things can happen with the use of stimulants. I have a friend who dropped dead in the gym. When they tested his blood toxicology it showed that he had been taking close to 100mg of Adderall every day, He looked like a pillar of health. Sure in retrospect, not eating and junking up on amphetamines, and working out can you look pretty good. Who knows why Cherepanov was taking coramine but I tell you this much: since he was revived twice at the rink and once at the hospital there is a good chance Alexi would still be alive today had he been shocked on site and the ambulance was there. Its a sad situation but as far as his upside? This kid was going to be awesome in the NHL. A top-10 scorer. He would have been the love of MSG. Just look at his performances at the WJC, and he wasn't just stacking up Russian Jr. records, he was shattering them. As I remember the announcers drooling over him during the WJC, they were saying that this kid was an offensive machine. They equated him as a prolific scorer in the mold of Kovalchuk and Bure. Losing him was a real blow to the Rangers organization. When we talk about our number 1's and there failure to impact the team, the best number 1 that we picked in at least a decade goes and drops dead on us. Oh the price the hockey God's are making us pay for 1994.
E
Fri Aug 13 2010 8:28 am EST
I know no one in the NHL has or will admit it, but one of the reasons I've always thought CHEREPANOV dropped so low was that something in his physical threw up question marks...I've always wondered how a lethal heart condition could go undetected through the NHL combine...RF4L - I was just going through the 2004 draft, and as weak as the Ranger picks were in the first three rounds, there wasn't a hell of a lot on the table...Like with the Montoya pick...the other choices were Stafford, Olesz, and Radulov...the only guy there really is Radulov, who bolted for the KHL anyway(BTW...if you want the top UFA to go for in 2011...)...Then with Korpikoski, you'd kind of have a case...Zajac would have been nice...ditto with Wolski and Mike Green...but when you get to the second round, there are A LOT of busts...Betweeen Olver and Byers, the only NHLer was Comeau, who isn't even that great..After Graham, there was Booth and Krecji(who would have been REAL nice)...The third round had only Franzen, Elder and Boyd...and the fourth round was straight garbage...So basically, it was a real crap-shoot of a draft. We were lucky to get Dubinsky and Callahan out of it, plus maybe Byers one of these days.
tdchi
Fri Aug 13 2010 8:13 am EST
I know no one in the NHL has or will admit it, but one of the reasons I've always thought CHEREPANOV dropped so low was that something in his physical threw up question marks...I've always wondered how a lethal heart condition could go undetected through the NHL combine...RF4L - I was just going through the 2004 draft, and as weak as the Ranger picks were in the first three rounds, there wasn't a hell of a lot on the table...Like with the Montoya pick...the other choices were Stafford, Olesz, and Radulov...the only guy there really is Radulov, who bolted for the KHL anyway(BTW...if you want the top UFA to go for in 2011...)...Then with Korpikoski, you'd kind of have a case...Zajac would have been nice...ditto with Wolski and Mike Green...but when you get to the second round, there are A LOT of busts...Betweeen Olver and Byers, the only NHLer was Comeau, who isn't even that great..After Graham, there was Booth and Krecji(who would have been REAL nice)...The third round had only Franzen, Elder and Boyd...and the fourth round was straight garbage...So basically, it was a real crap-shoot of a draft. We were lucky to get Dubinsky and Callahan out of it, plus maybe Byers one of these days.
tdchi
Fri Aug 13 2010 7:37 am EST
Yep, being saying it for a while now: The Rangers single biggest failing (and there's been many) is their shoddy high round drafting. From rounds 4 to 1 over the past decade they have Callahn, Dubinsky, Staal, AA and MDZ. Nothing wrong with any of those guys (and both AA and MDZ could develop into very strong players) but when I think of the squandered picks, especially those accummulated via purge of 04 (Sather's only real attempt at a proper rebuild), I think of what could be and I get depressed.
RF4L
Fri Aug 13 2010 6:24 am EST
Cherepanov was NOT a sure thing for a very long time. But he took that last step for sure his last season. I see that as a fact. I posted the same thing back then too. He was a GAG- player in the KHL. A player with the skill level of a Semin/Kovalev don't bust. He might not have it in him to take team to a cup, he might not even make a bog difference. But Chere would have been a "star".
Ola
Fri Aug 13 2010 6:04 am EST
Evets, nice post agree with most. I disagree about having no second line. Cally and Dubi on the wings gives us a second line. Your second line isn't scoring 35-40 goals on 90% of the teams in the league. They are scoring between 25-30 and those two can do it, well Cally will, Dubi will if he has his head on right and remembers what got him to the NHL again this year. The hobbit is an unknown but certainly displayed second line talent in the Olympics this past year for certain. What we seriously lack are centers of any real experience as top line players that are consistent. Will White find the game he had a few years ago? Maybe, who knows? We needed Prospal simply by default who was going to play his minutes and be able to produce like he can? I love watching Savard play, but he is not suited for the first line on this team. Gabby is not a set up and wait for the pass kind of shooter, he creates his own opportunities with the puck which negates the essential skill Savard brings to the table. Savvy is probably the best passer in the game, well, him or Thornton, but the problem is who is he going to be passing to, and why do the Bruins want to trade him to a rival for very little in return? Not to mention the Rangers know his contract is under investigation which means he may be a UFA real soon.
York18
Thu Aug 12 2010 11:41 pm EST
First, let me say that I feel completely hockey deprived. I am absolutely itching for training camp to get here so that we actually can have some new topics to discuss. I think I am going to lay out my entire feelings on this team, so excuse the length of this post. Chances are it will be completely skipped over because of its length, but at least I will have had the opportunity to get all of this off my chest… Ok, so… I agree with most of the people on this wall that the New York Rangers are a complete and utter mess of a team. We have no first line center. Our # 1 defenseman (while I love Staal) is a solid # 2 dman on another team. Beyond him, we have a glut of 4-6 dmen. I think if Del Zotto develops his defensive side of the game and continues to grow offensively, he could blossom into that # 1 dman and have Staal run shotgun with him. My thoughts on the summer… Bringing Christensen back, while he was productive down the stretch last year, was a mistake. He has proven throughout his career in the NHL that he is completely inconsistent. He CANNOT and SHOULD NOT be considered for the first line center spot this year. The Biron signing was a fantastic pick up. The Frolov signing was a great low risk-high reward move. The removal of the Brashear contract was outstanding. Adding White was a bonus and if he doesn’t work out he can be sent to Hartford and would be an outstanding influence on Stepan and Grachev down there. I liked Prospal last year, but Frolov should have been brought in to replace Prospal, not brought in in addition to Prospal. The forward ranks right now are very imbalanced. We lack a first and second line center. As a matter of fact, we lack a second line all together. We have 2/3 of a first line in Gaborik and Frolov, no second line at all, and a glut of third and fourth liners. To make matters worse, we are right up against the cap with nothing to show for it. As presently constructed, the most balanced lineup that I can come up with is the following: Frolov-White-Gaborik, Dubinsky-Prospal-Drury, Avery-Anisimov-Callahan, Boogaard/Prust-Christensen-Zucarello, Staal-Girardi, Del Zotto-Mcdonagh, Eminger-Roszival, Lundqvist-Biron. Just looking at this lineup makes me nauseous. Like always, I’m excited to see the young guys like Dubinsky, Anisimov, Callahan, Zucarello, Del Zotto, and Mcdonagh play in addition to Gaborik and, this year, Frolov, but the supplementary parts just depress me. Sather has to make a move to make the Rangers AT LEAST a one line team. I think the Rangers need to make a move for Marc Savard. I would love for them to go after Brad Richards, but it seems as though Dallas is going to hold on to him. The Bs are in a bit of a cap crunch and are looking to move forward with Seguin in the lineup. The Bruins cannot take much Salary back. I think that Dubinsky and a midlevel prospect (Mike Sauer, Nigel Williams?) should be able to get it done. That at least would give the Rangers a legitimate top line threat and would balance out the rest of the lines a bit better: Frolov-Savard-Gaborik, Prospal-Anisimov-Callahan, Avery-Drury-Zucarello, Boogaard-Christensen-Prust All I know is that if this team stands pat where they are right now in terms of players, I can see them being the #13 seed in the east. However, with the addition of Biron and with Lundqvist perhaps getting some more rest to be fresher for a stretch run, I can see them squeaking into the 8th seed and be destroyed in the first round of the playoffs. When will this horrendous mediocrity end????? Even with Redden dumped into the minors, all we have is wiggle room regarding the cap. Perhaps things will start to turn around when Drury and Roszival’s contracts come off the books in two years opening up a huge 12 million in cap space. Furthermore, after this year Frolov, White, and Eminger come off the cap equaling about 6.5 million, while Callahan, Dubinsky, and Anisimov need to get resigned. We are screwed for at least the next two years…. And I will be there every step of the way… Thanks for reading (if you did)!!
evets1980
Thu Aug 12 2010 6:05 pm EST
E.I tend to agree , the majority of kids on this team are easily replacable as hospo mentioned that they would look great on Drury's wing on third line , considering the fact that they're are third liners and could be easily replaces than they can be an assets to get a another scorer , we dont have another gabby on the team heck we dont even have another frolov , yes they are good core to rebuild with but i they were playing behind somene like crosby, ovi, malkin .Put Dubi and Cally on a team like philly they would be reunited with Betts or Detroit they would start training camp on the third line with Modano . This team needs a franchise scorer who can lead not just off the ice but on the ice Dubi and Cally do not fit in that category .
ilya
Thu Aug 12 2010 4:38 pm EST
I will buy the argument that Cherepanov could have been a game breaker but that argument also comes with the fact that there was a reason he fell in our laps. You can cite the he was Russian argument till you're blue in the face but I am convinced GMs knew more than that just that.
Danylo Halytskyj
Thu Aug 12 2010 4:36 pm EST
Comparisons to Steinbrener at this point are moot because Steinbrener was able to fix all of his problems by buying big name players. with a salary cap we can not do that. Even when we tried that avenue Sather failed miserable - just look at Holik and Kasparaitus. Paying Holik 9 million was probably one of the worst contracts ever. Redden's does come close considering we are under a cap now.
Danylo Halytskyj
Thu Aug 12 2010 2:09 pm EST
homegrown is not the best weed is it tdchi? ;-).....the coach is spewing the gm's bs he's now giving jimmyboy.......and what will talkerella say if they come in 13th?......more bs...........they have their cya down pat.........
stevielegs
Thu Aug 12 2010 1:27 pm EST
E - Totally agree..Just becasue players are young doesn;t mean they are good and should be built with....I see alot of complimentary parts in the Rangers system..but nothing really to build a winner out of....Hopefully somehow a player or two likes that gets developed and windows can be put in the house..
Hospo
Thu Aug 12 2010 1:08 pm EST
Wally - Just to play devil's advocate, people used to say the same thing about George Steinbrenner back in the 1980s...in fact, he was a large reason I ended up being a Mets fan growing up...Yet today, he's revered as some sort of saint....Not saying Dolan is ANYTHING like the Bossman. Just perspective, since when you posed that question, the first name that crossed my brainpan was Steinbrenner...Hospo - Yep. I was cautiously optimistic until WHITE came in. I'd personally rather watch Stepan and Anisimov get schooled at center than watch White and Prospal chug along...but then I guess you get into the argument about rushing young players along...Gah...who knows...
tdchi
Thu Aug 12 2010 1:01 pm EST
While I applaud Tortorella and his commitment (and it seems Sather's) to not losing young players that they see as part of a core for the future, I frankly have issue in that I continue to not see the types of core players that make up a winner. Poor drafting continues to plague the Rangers. Sure being able to back-fill is important but as long as the Rangers do not have game breakers, they are not going to win games. A team of second & third liner's no matter how cohesive and gritty is not going to overcome talent in today's game. I see a relatively average to below average squad. I think the Rangers will be physical. I think the Rangers will take the body. I even think the Rangers are actually going to be a tough and intimidating squad (as if it matters). I don't think teams are going to like playing the Rangers. Hospodar, Fotiu, Domi, and Kocur would have been proud. I think they will win games with hard work. But their margin of error will be small and a lot of pressure will be placed on their goaltender with an inability to generate reliable offense. And so sets the course as a team bound for seemingly endless mediocrity based on the current strategy. I am not saying what they are doing is bad, because I like the fact that we have serviceable players entering the league that are young, and inexpensive but I also think in order to win, you need winners. As it stands right now, we are going to be deplorable on face-offs. I can't see one single elite face-off guy right now. Drury has shown me that he is nothing but average in the face-off circle. I wouldn't care if they signed a stopgap like Belanger right now. Just give me someone who can play a puck backwards. I can accept a rebuild, I wanted a rebuild, I can live with a rebuild but I also want to win. They tell me that there is a game breaking elite prospect coming up and that I should be excited then great... Who is it? There are some quality guys with some potential but not anything we can even convince ourselves into believing is elite. You want to tell me that there are more Brandon Dubinsky's and Ryan Callahan's. OK, but that only replaces those guys when they leave for more money. We need to see that the Rangers are going to be game for talent. I need to see guys who can score and score frequently. When Gaborik goes down this season and history says that most likely he will, our heroes in blue will be vying for the worst offensive production of any team other then Edmonton last season. And maybe that is the blessing that some of you have been pining for. Couturier, Adam Larsson (yet another defenseman), or Ryan Hopkins. A franchise player would become in reach but meanwhile our hero goalie, and our young core is yet another year older. Our rickety game breaking right wing is a little more fragile. Things begin to start looking more and more bleak. Windows in today's NHL are small (ask Chicago, ask Washington), I am beginning to wonder when our window will open or even worse, do we even have a window to open?
E
Thu Aug 12 2010 12:59 pm EST
Not sure, but is there a worse owner in sports than the Dolans?
wally5460
Thu Aug 12 2010 12:38 pm EST
TDCHI - Just love seeing those question marks in the middle of the top lines!..Also think..., Dubi and Cally on the wings would make for agreat THIRD line with Drury,.!...Pretty sad, when Chirs Drury is your only set in stone center and your other candidates are Chirtiansen, White, Prospal Anisimov and Brain Boyle..But, hopefully camp porves me wrong..
Hospo
Thu Aug 12 2010 10:47 am EST
Fischler and Torts sit down: ""I feel good about what we did so far this Summer...We didn't deal any of our kids and the foundation for the team is in place. We have to build a club without relying totally on free agency...We want to keep our youthful core and keep adding to it." Also, looks like Torts already has several pieces penciled in....First line - Frolov-??-Gaborik...Second line Dubinsky-??-Callahan...His comments were fairly milquetoast on Christensen...sounds like he'll be fighting for a job in camp, not vying for first-line center, where some continue to suggest he'll play....he also dispels the 'myth' that he put the handcuffs on Avery. Rather, he says it was Avery who started playing that way...all-in-all, a pretty boring read. But it's summer...
tdchi
Wed Aug 11 2010 10:59 pm EST
why not hire him to help the genius pick hockey players with a new dart board?............................
stevielegs
Wed Aug 11 2010 10:58 pm EST
jimmyboy wonder....."...."Although I'm disappointed that Isiah will not be working with the Knicks as a consultant, I continue to believe in his basketball knowledge, including his ability to judge talent," Dolan said in a statement. "He's a good friend of mine and of the organization and I will continue to solicit his views. He will always have strong ties to me and the team. We wish him continued success at FIU. "I also believe Donnie Walsh has done a terrific job since joining the Knicks and my tremendous respect for him has only grown since he's joined the organization. I'm confident that the work that Donnie, Coach Mike D'Antoni and their staffs have done this summer has the team poised for long-term success." Read more: http://www.nypost.com/p/sports/knicks/isiah_won_be_working_for_knicks_wE6ChdKRd6QwL5gAwOotxI#ixzz0wMPlup4t .........................charles spank your sonny, ...........
stevielegs
Wed Aug 11 2010 10:42 pm EST
Hicks believes Stars sale will be smoother than Rangers ......... Read more: http://www.star-telegram.com/2010/08/09/2393862/hicks-believes-stars-sale-will.html#ixzz0wMMT7cGa
mf
Wed Aug 11 2010 10:34 pm EST
Player agent: Ilya's deal should have been OK'd ........ http://www.nypost.com/p/sports/devils/player_agent_kovalchuk_deal_should_0KYEV6OA7wHYeNvJmSo5vL
mf
Wed Aug 11 2010 10:32 pm EST
Kovalchuk in Russia, in good spirits: report ......... http://www.nypost.com/p/sports/devils/kovalchuk_in_russia_in_good_spirits_OHIMrUTWWTxjtRcl243JoI
mf
Wed Aug 11 2010 10:27 pm EST
"" Saving Jim Dolan from himself, the NBA on Wednesday ruled Thomas can't serve both as head coach at Florida International and work for the Knicks because of a handful of conflict of interests, according to an NBA source """
mf
Wed Aug 11 2010 10:26 pm EST
NO DEAL! ..... Conflicts keep Isiah from Knicks job ..... http://www.nypost.com/p/sports/knicks/isiah_won_be_working_for_knicks_wE6ChdKRd6QwL5gAwOotxI
mf
Wed Aug 11 2010 9:36 pm EST
Opening night the lights are down, the speaker system comes on, they're number 13 in the predicted rankings, but number one in your hearts, Your..........New York............Rangers........
York18
Wed Aug 11 2010 7:42 pm EST
THN looks to be just about right. 13th.
Bob
Wed Aug 11 2010 1:50 pm EST
they are #1 in my book ;-)
stevielegs
Wed Aug 11 2010 1:39 pm EST
Hospo: I'm sure THN review is the first of many more similar projections we will be seeing/reading. IMO, it's only the existence of the King and Gabbie in the lineup that's preventing THN from predicting a 15th place finish (in the east).
RF4L
Wed Aug 11 2010 1:14 pm EST
WILDCARD - I'm not agreeing with their reason, just their placement..To me it has nothing to do with Gaborik (but i can see how what they say imght happen)....To me, it's the crappy managemet/coaching, horrendous defesniv backline, and a huge hole in the middle of the forward lines......And Not too early to start making predicitons becasue one can always change them! Right now, I see a disaster of a season coming up...Hopefully training camp changes my mind...We'll see...
Hospo
Wed Aug 11 2010 12:59 pm EST
HOSPO: It verey well could be proper placement....HOWEVER...tehy say that basicly it will be becasue Gaby wont be "untouched by injury" again....again? He was hobbled by an injury the second half of last season. And thats a fairly weak argument...if they wanted to talk about the lack of depth up front scoreing wise, and a D that is either over rated or too young and inexperianced, than I would get it...but they point to Gabby?? I dont get it... Personaly I donth think tehre is much difrence between the number 7 team and the number 13 team...really...I mean a injury here of there, a palyer has a good year, a player has a bad year....those teams can find themselves in any spot from 7-13....but Its STILL too early to be guessing how well teams will do....alot of teams still dont have their rosters set, and untill pre-season is over it is hard to know waht a team will look like.
Wildcard
Wed Aug 11 2010 12:28 pm EST
And here is something to warm the cockles of the hearts of the Wall's resident optimists..Check out where The Hockey News predicts the Rangers to be this year....http://www.thehockeynews.com/articles/34718-The-Hockey-News-201011-NHL-regular-season-predictions-No-13.html ...Only one magazines's opinion but can't say I disagree with their placement
Hospo
Wed Aug 11 2010 10:43 am EST
One thing the Stars have over the Rangers is Joe Nieuwendyk vs the antiquated Glen Sather.
RF4L
Wed Aug 11 2010 8:49 am EST
Vic - No, that's not what I'm saying. Not even close. I was pointing out that teams in playoff contention are(to the best of my recollection) NOT sellers. Of course a bottom feeding team that is retooling is going to deal any pieces it has that aren't in the long-range plans. And I would agree, that's the wise thing to do...The argument as it was presented to me here was that the Rangers in (chose anytime post-lockout year) should have dealt their veterans for young players and picks. I say there's absolutely positively NO precedent for that that I can recall in the modern history of the NHL...the closest I can come up with a competitive team doing that AT ALL is in the post-season. For instance, the Hawks just dealt away half their roster...Tampa did a similar thing before the lockout....and then of course there's the anomaly of Pittsburgh, which had a great franchise, but was a bankrupt and on the verge of moving to Hamilton. The team did the only thing it could do to hold the market in steel town, which was to sell everything and hope beyond all odds that they'd land Crosby, much like they did in the 1980s to land Lemiuex(who was ironically in the front office when they liquidated this time)...mf - I would tend to agree, but it all depends on what RICHARDS is asking for come the spring. Realize they've got GLENNIE coming into the system this year, and if he really makes a splash, the Stars might be willing to let Richards walk...I got to say its nice to read about a team that's arguably more screwed than the Rangers. I read this line and almost fell off my chair: "Nieuwendyk is banking on Lehtonen and the continued maturing of some of his youngsters to make them better, too." LEHTONEN?!? The guy who has spent almost more time on the IR than DiPIETRO?!? Yep. That's a good cornerstone for your franchise. Nieuwendyk is banking on Lehtonen and the continued maturing of some of his youngsters to make them better, too.
tdchi
Wed Aug 11 2010 8:01 am EST
Wally: Please Make it Happen ! I'll ask Monk to drive them. ;-)
mf
Wed Aug 11 2010 7:58 am EST
New era begins in Dallas without Modano, Turco ................. http://www.nhl.com/ice/news.htm?id=535590&navid=DL|NHL|home ................. (I doubt Dallas trades Richards, in fact, I believe their rebuild is around Richards, they resign, and he stays put.) jmo
mf
Wed Aug 11 2010 6:57 am EST
TD: I just want to be clear. Are you saying there is no precedent for a team that has no chance to win a Cup or a championship (any sport really) trading away its star veteran players at the deadline to obtain draft picks and prospects?
Vic
Tue Aug 10 2010 10:27 pm EST
Vic - That's fine. I don't care either way. My only point to you in ALL of that was to have you look at PRECEDENT, and simply put, there's no real precedent in the way you would GM the team, save for maybe the clusterf@ck Penguins, and what they did to net their superstars...but we agree to disagree. Fine....Zebop...That's interesting...I didn't realize some of those contracts were just coming into play. I personally think the 'review' is a dog-and-pony show to scare any other teams from doling out one of these contracts...sure you probably saw this in the rags, but local RPI phenom Jerry D'Amigo is joining the Leafs this year...just signed...he's a kid that has been raising some eyebrows lately and has a shot to make that team...good young team hitting the ice in Toronto this year...Kessel, Phaneuf, Giguere...Kommisarek...Kadri...now D'Amigo...don't know if I'd make Hospo that same Leafs bet today.
tdchi
Tue Aug 10 2010 9:15 pm EST
who needs stinking points?..."...Kovalchuk was initially traded to the Devils from the Thrashers Feb. 4 in a major deal after he rejected Atlanta's contract offers of $101 million over 12 years and $70 million over seven years. After coming to the Devils with Anssi Salmela and a swap of second-round picks for Johnny Oduya, Niclas Bergfors, prospect Patrice Cormier and a first-rounder, the left wing scored 27 points in 27 games to close the season and led the team with six points in its five playoff games." Read more: http://www.nypost.com/p/sports/devils/arbitrator_rejects_ilya_deal_with_aZaVh65wtlsj1X5oQRWO4O/1#ixzz0wG9r7BbG
stevielegs
Tue Aug 10 2010 5:15 pm EST
like to read?.....http://docs.google.com/fileview?id=0B4hYOrjFUhfiZjVkMGZkZTEtMTk1ZS00NzhjLThhNzctMWM1ODRmZjA3OGE4&authkey=CNaVz6EG&hl=en&pli=1
stevielegs
Tue Aug 10 2010 3:34 pm EST
Wild, not sure why they wouldn't feel they could win those. They just won a similar one, right? Yes, it's been a while since those were signed, but they haven't been "played" under yet. And the arbitrator clearly said the NHLPA submitting those contracts as evidence supporting their case actually worked against them, kind of (or at least didn't help them) ... Bloch: "...while the contracts, have, in fact, been registered, their structure has not escaped League notice and those [contracts] are being investigated currently with the possibility of a subsequent withdrawal of the registration."
Zebop
Tue Aug 10 2010 2:37 pm EST
Zebop: What I mean by being a show is that the NHL probably doesnt feel they can win "that" fight. Its been too long, since those contracts were signed....so knowing the outcome would go against them, it would jsut be for show.
Wildcard
Tue Aug 10 2010 2:34 pm EST
Wild, like I said, the NHL asked Gillis for more info regarding Luongo's contract yesterday, so it might not be for show. Also, all of those contracts now in question except Hossa's -- Pronger's, Luongo's and Savard's -- go into effect this coming season, so they have not played under them yet. I guess the NHL would have to move fast to arbitrate them before October but it's clear with Bettman in charge you never know what could happen. He and Daly I'm sure had a lovefest together after hearing Bloch's ruling yesterday. They have more power, is what it boils down to.
Zebop
Tue Aug 10 2010 2:16 pm EST
RF4L: there is something int eh CBA, it was written about by some LA news guy, that says a team and/or player or player rep can not purposly circomvent the cap with a contract. And its up to the NHL to decide if it is, teh NHLPA can put in a grievence if they think its correct. That is basicly what happened now. Anyway, I think the IK contract pushed the limit too far, the other contracts had 2-5 years of dirt cheap pay, bringing players up to the age of 40 or so...not 7 years up to teh age of 44. And I dont think any paid as little as 500K
Wildcard
Tue Aug 10 2010 2:13 pm EST
RF4L: I agree that the simple answer is teh cap hit matched the pay. HOWEVER I dont think the NHLPA would like that. The way it is now a player can get a BIG payday one year, and than have it settle down teh rest of the years....the only way I could see the NHLPA get over that would be to have some amount of signing bonus be cap free....I dont know...maybe up to 25% of the amount the player will earn can be added as a sign on bonus cap free.
Wildcard
Tue Aug 10 2010 1:42 pm EST
Meant to add that all that said, by no means do I even begin to say I have spent any time analyzing the collective agreement so I have no idea if there's actual wording in there that outlaws these sort of contracts. Given the fact that some already exist, however, I suspect there isn't anything specific, hence my comments about the good faith ruling the arbitrator made...
RF4L
Tue Aug 10 2010 1:40 pm EST
I find the arbitrator's decision curious in that it appears he's ruled on the good faith aspect of the agreement. By that I mean it's clear that Kovalchuk's contract is a very obvious circumvention of the intent of the cap - everyone and his gramma knows Kovalchuk will not be playing for the Devils in his 40s for $500,000/year. I am assuming what the arbitrator didn't do was take into account the contracts given to the likes of Pronger and Hossa. Therefore, it's quite possible that both of these would have similar rulings against them if the NHL had originally opposed them. It's highly doubtful the NHL will bother reviewing their decision, but it sure serves to make GMs/owners think twice about handing out anything like these going forward. Also, for certain this will be a major aspect of the new agreement. For me, it's quite simple: Whatever a player is paid in a given year (including bonuses) that's what counts against the cap in that same year.
RF4L
Tue Aug 10 2010 1:21 pm EST
TD: First, we are talking about the trade deadline of the 06'-07' season. I don't recall ever having talked about dumping the vets in the off season. Second, it is all speculation. There are no guarantees that doing what I wanted to do at that deadline would have gotten the Rangers closer to a Cup now then they are. BUT, it would have been an attempt to build a team that had a chance. If the goal is to win the Cup (and there is no other goal IMHO) then the analogy to my business makes perfect sense. I had come to the conclusion going into that deadline that the team, as constructed, NEVER was going to win a Cup. It was obvious to me and it was obvious to others here. If your goal is to win the Cup then you take the drastic measures to build a team that has a chance. If your goal is collect playoff money they you do what the Rangers did then, and have done since. Look, this is going nowhere and it has to be a colossal bore-fest for anyone reading this wall. Lets just agree to disagree and drop it. I won't reply to your posts and you can ignore mine. Deal?
Vic
Tue Aug 10 2010 1:12 pm EST
Zebop: I think some of the NHL looking into other contracts is a show. What I mean is that if the NHL tried to make those contracts void, an arbitrator would most likely uphold the contract becasue the palyers were aloud to play under those contracts...so with that, teh NHL could say they were being even handed across the board. What I am more interested in is what will the new rule be...and can the NHLPA and the NHL change that rule anytime, or does it have to be in a certain time frame? I would THINK that it would be easy enough...as of now a contract cant lose 50% of its value or something like that year to year. So just say that a contract can only lose 50% per year, and there can only be, lets say 4 years at LESS than 50% of the highest paid year. That would alow teams to set up longer term, lesser cap hit contracts, and stop them from being silly like IKs was.
Wildcard
Tue Aug 10 2010 12:16 pm EST
Vic - The funny thing is, we're in the same boat. I just don't know why I bother...BUT...here's my latest go at it...point-by-point, so you know I'm reading: "The purpose of making those moves was to start the rebuilding process. That means ending the cycle of mediocrity." Says F--KING WHO?!? Case in point: Just about the whole NHL and the cavalcade of reporters that cover it had the 2005-2006 Rangers picked for DEAD LAST. A mopey Jagr. No goaltending. A bunch of retreads. What happened? They shot to the top of the division and stayed there. Sure, there's a chance they would have gotten a first-overall...There's also a chance they would have gotten another Montoya...AND you ignore the fact that they had Hank in there ANYWAY, which meant they weren't going far down in the cellar....So you wanted him traded too?!? That, buddy, is unmitigated nonsense...."Also, you cannot know who the Rangers would have chosen with the extra draft picks. I didn't bother replying again because I already said all of this once and you didn't get it." Yeah, I don't get it. Again, Vic...LOOK AT HISTORY. LOOK AT WHAT OTHER TEAMS HAVE GOTTEN VIA DEADLINE TRADES. Not much...but who cares? It's all speculation anyway...Still, I fall back on my first point..."BTW, not that you will believe this or even care but your assertion that nobody would ever trade those Vets to make their team worse makes me laugh. I am a small business owner who walked away from the customer who represented about 40 to 50 percent of my total revenue earlier this year." That's good for you and your business. But are you an NHL owner, GM, or even affiliated with a team? Does your business involve winning a sports trophy? COME THE HELL ON, VIC! The point of EVERY NHL GM(Pittsburgh excluded) is to win the cup. I can guarantee if you polled EVERY GM at the beginning of the season and asked, are you willing to tank a year to get picks...the answer is going to be 'No, we're going into the season to be competitive.' Now here's another question I'll heap onto the pile that you refuse to answer because it's a "colossal waste of [your] time": Name the teams that HAVE purposely dismantled in the off-season to field a worse team than they did during the regular season. Then name the reasons why they dismantled. The funny thing is, the only teams I can think of off the top of my head are the 2003-2004 Lightning and the Hawks...in both cases, finances were at the root. Yet for some ODD reason, I can't come up with a middle-of-the-pack team that arbitrarily decided to jettison all its star players...the closest I can come up with?!? THE RANGERS(dumping Jagr, dumping Z and Gomez)...And how did that work out for them?..."The Rangers were in a similar position back in the 06'-07' season. They chose to keep the bad business either through fear or a lack of insight." OK, this is the one that really gets me. So MSG gets two seasons of playoff revenue, and that's bad business? And your argument is that the should miss the playoffs for three consecutive years(2007-2010)...so on the off chance, they draft some young buck who takes another year or two to develop? REALLY?!? In closing, I'll give you a big 'whatever.' You're the one who defies logic without an iota of fact behind what you're proffering as the god-given truth.
tdchi
Tue Aug 10 2010 11:47 am EST
Wildcard, from what I read that certainly played a part in Bloch's decision, but it wasn't the sole reason, or even the majority reason. The whole totality of the contract -- length, huge drop in salary in late years, change in movement clause -- is what prompted the void. Interesting to see what happens now with Luongo etc., as the Canucks GM confirmed yesterday that the NHL asked for more info regarding that contract.
Zebop
Tue Aug 10 2010 11:03 am EST
Sounds like if the NMC, or the NTC had been in place for the final years of the contract, IK would still be signed. But perhaps thats mis information.
Wildcard
Tue Aug 10 2010 10:09 am EST
TD: I already told you. You are incorrect if you think I wanted to make those moves to bring in specific players. The purpose of making those moves was to start the rebuilding process. That means ending the cycle of mediocrity. Jettisoning those vets would have accomplished that and would have given the Rangers the top pick in the draft (or top 3 at worst) for two or three years. THAT IS THE GOAL. Yes, they would have gotten pack picks and prospects in the those deals as well. Those picks and prospects could have further turned into players that could have been a part of a winning team now and over the next few years. Just because the players that were traded didn't work out for other teams doesn't mean they wouldn't have worked out here. Also, you cannot know who the Rangers would have chosen with the extra draft picks. I didn't bother replying again because I already said all of this once and you didn't get it. It is a waste of my time to keep trying to knock sense into you or to try to get my point across. You aren't listening. You have your hand on the "transmit" button and don't care what anyone else is saying. You even refuse to admit what you have said in that past when your direct quotes are posted back for you. That is why I didn't bother replying to your ridiculous post about Ranger Myths. Almost all of it was useless tripe but to argue with you is a colossal waste of my time. BTW, not that you will believe this or even care but your assertion that nobody would ever trade those Vets to make their team worse makes me laugh. I am a small business owner who walked away from the customer who represented about 40 to 50 percent of my total revenue earlier this year. When you are in business you have to make hard decisions. Sometimes you have to change course when you see that things aren't going to lead where you want them to. I am living with that hard decision now but it was the right move because in the end bad business is bad business even if it makes you money. The Rangers were in a similar position back in the 06'-07' season. They chose to keep the bad business either through fear or a lack of insight.
Vic
Tue Aug 10 2010 9:59 am EST
York - If there's one thing I'm NOT doing, it's applauding Sather. In fact, I even said the quality of players in the system is DESPITE his bungling...Really what I was trying to do was point out the large difference in the system from during the first five years of his tenure to the present. Regardless of the reason he's bringing in new players, he's bringing them in. Sure, it's prudent to take a 'wait and see' attitude for some of the young players coming up. But when I see the performances from the WJC and the NCAA finals, I can't help but be a bit excited for the future...Speaking of delusional...Larry Brooks is officially off his rocker, suggesting the NHL's victory in the IK sweepstakes COULD void Hawks' Stanley Cup: "Hossa was in the lineup for 22 playoff games last spring. Presumably his presence affected the outcome of at least some Chicago victories. If the NHL is consistent and does move to prosecute the Blackhawks and Hossa, Bettman could vacate the title as if his league were the NCAA dealing with Reggie Bush and USC."Right. You'll need a militia to take the cup away from Chicago. Read more: http://www.nypost.com/p/sports/devils/beware_blackhawks_ilya_decision_4wqFiOx6WIW0ufCLOEupKJ#ixzz0wDMvgR9B
tdchi
Tue Aug 10 2010 9:59 am EST
York - If there's one thing I'm NOT doing, it's applauding Sather. In fact, I even said the quality of players in the system is DESPITE his bungling...Really what I was trying to do was point out the large difference in the system from during the first five years of his tenure to the present. Regardless of the reason he's bringing in new players, he's bringing them in. Sure, it's prudent to take a 'wait and see' attitude for some of the young players coming up. But when I see the performances from the WJC and the NCAA finals, I can't help but be a bit excited for the future...Speaking of delusional...Larry Brooks is officially off his rocker, suggesting the NHL's victory in the IK sweepstakes COULD void Hawks' Stanley Cup: "Hossa was in the lineup for 22 playoff games last spring. Presumably his presence affected the outcome of at least some Chicago victories. If the NHL is consistent and does move to prosecute the Blackhawks and Hossa, Bettman could vacate the title as if his league were the NCAA dealing with Reggie Bush and USC."Right. You'll need a militia to take the cup away from Chicago. Read more: http://www.nypost.com/p/sports/devils/beware_blackhawks_ilya_decision_4wqFiOx6WIW0ufCLOEupKJ#ixzz0wDMvgR9B
tdchi
Tue Aug 10 2010 9:44 am EST
it's August, there's no hockey, baseball is boring.... would you trade STAAL and CALLY for MALKIN? Hell, throw in Drury and Roszi and season tickets to the Knicks.
wally5460
Tue Aug 10 2010 7:26 am EST
in a heartbeat
stevielegs
Tue Aug 10 2010 7:10 am EST
it's August, there's no hockey, baseball is boring.... would you trade STAAL and CALLY for MALKIN?
Pal17
Tue Aug 10 2010 6:14 am EST
TD, You have gone delusional, he is filling spots with youth because he has no choice. He is maxed out on the cap and has to fill roster positions some how. He rushed Dubi who should have had another year developing that way his ego would have stayed in check and we could have developed him into the PF we need, instead of the puss finesse player he thinks he is, but isn't. We have four guys that have stuck in all the years Sather has been here, that's not a feeder system. The three that have had decent careers elsewhere ROFLMAO two are hardly gone long and too young to use the word careers, you're reaching. You are applauding Sather like he has done something, a broken clock is right twice a day getting four guys right, or even six in a decade is nothing to be proud of. I like what we have down the pipe and if 1/4 make it to the show that will be huge especially if they flourish and one is named Mcdonut and the other Mcgilrath because that gives us the D we need and Stepan turns out to be a first line center, but that's a lot of ifs.
York18
Tue Aug 10 2010 5:49 am EST
tdchi you are easily impressed, and again just stating your opinion. ....now cal glen and tell him how much you love what he has done lately.
stevielegs
Mon Aug 9 2010 10:03 pm EST
Ah the summer heat continues to make the natives restless ...... Amazing how none of the networks I've seen mention the solar flare activity of recent with the past month - or two of above normal temperatures ...... and now ..... Since Kovalchuk is back on the market, its time for a late round of "Rosterbation," brought to you by, Early Alzheimers, our newest sponsor......... And now a word from our sponsor..... Have the last 10 years watching your favorite hockey team left you wondering, disillusioned, seemingly going nowhere? Have you been questioning your teams owners, GM, coaching staff? Do you really think anything is going to change with this hierarchy in place even after reading every article printed on every media circuit? If so, you may be suffering from Early Alzheimers! Thats correct folks, Early Alzheimers..... And now back to Rosterbation....... So, half the folks say go after Kova, and half the folks say not to..... Some say the team will be more interesting to watch, some say we'll score more goals & points, some say it will only cost money.....All true ..... as far as the cap goes: Moving Rozi, makes room for Staal...Signing Staal for less than $5mill, leaves you some gravy ...... Redden goes away! This leaves you $6.5 toward Kova, you need to trade some guys to free up some money ...... In all likelihood, Drury is not going anywhere, but moving his contract would be hitting the jackpot, because you could now sign Kova and add a D'man.... So, I'd look to move two others to make room for Kova at this point ...... Rosterbation part deaux (thats 2 in french) A couple of days back I tried posted about the 3 top names for center thrown out here in discussions, Savard, Spezza, Richards....Savard, his contract & concussion tells me to stay away.... My first fantasy choice was Spezza, I was hoping to have him as our 2nd line center, but the feedback here says he would be very costly.... now Richards: Richards is in the last year of his contract.... Dallas (supposedly) is hurting financially......I very much doubt that Dallas will allow Richards to walk at the end of the season & get nothing in return.....I also doubt that Dallas will keep him until the trade deadline to trade....So, fast forward to now, preseason approaching.... What would it take to land us Richards? If acquired do we immediately put him on the 1st line with Gabby, or, to we attempt to build a 2nd line around him? end of this episode of rosterbation..... Pass the bong!
mf
Mon Aug 9 2010 9:32 pm EST
Vic - I'm still waiting for you to show me all these deadline trades that helped teams become immensely successful with the sudden influx of youth and picks...or when a team vying for a playoff spot randomly decided to liquidate its roster...or anything other than you've got a chip on your shoulder about the team you allegedly root for. My advice: Go root for the Islanders. They're more your speed. They're young. They've got a first-overall pick...they're...um..."rebuilding"...they traded their vets at deadline...stevie - I'm impressed. You're posting something other than 'fire Sather?' Could that be the bong giving you some added perspective?
tdchi
Mon Aug 9 2010 9:27 pm EST
Ken – of course not. Some succeed(Dubinsky, Callahan, Staal, and Lundqvist...soon Anisimov, MDZ and Gilroy, IMO)...some don't(Pock and Hollweg)...some move on and have decent careers elsewhere(Moore, Prucha, Korpikoski). The point is, Sather, despite his bungling and incessant roster shuffling, has created a system that is now regularly trickling in players that can fill roles on the team. This is the feeder system the team has lacked for so many years when the Rangers had NOTHING and were filling nearly all their needs through the UFA market...I've long since argued that the current system will SLOWLY help the Rangers rise from mediocrity to success. Some of the less rational posters here(Vic, for instance) simply want to shout 'F—K IT' and point to the obvious flaws that we see on the roster(lack of top center, lack of physical defender) as the Rangers continued failure and unequivocal proof that the team will implode year after year after year for the next millennium(on an aside, I simply don't understand WHY a fan would continue watching them with this attitude...but I digress)....Now sure there's a chance ALL these guys in development that SCOUTS(not armchair sports fans that haven't even seen them play) are touting don't make it. But there's also a chance that some do...I'll also point out (to my knowledge) there's NEVER been a time when three Ranger prospects have hung the gold medal of the WJC around their necks. That happened last year, and THAT in and of itself is a very promising sign...but why stop there? They had three prospects in the NCAA finals...they've got two kids expected to make this year's WJC team...and that's before you consider the guys already in Hartford. Sure, there's no sense and calling these guys 'can't miss' players...but there's plenty of evidence there that SOME of them will in fact make the big leagues and have an impact.
tdchi
Mon Aug 9 2010 9:25 pm EST
http://www.nypost.com/p/blogs/knicksblog/isiah_walsh_fine_with_me_coming_awEZ53RiHYiL8K4QrAy0gI
mf
Mon Aug 9 2010 9:24 pm EST
Isiah: Donnie's fine with me coming back to Knicks........ "NOT" .......The Sunday Post reported that Walsh told Thomas two weeks ago he did not want him to work for the organization. Thomas and owner James Dolan then secretly worked out a part-time consulting deal that allowed Thomas to stay as head coach at Florida International......... Even Hank Ratner, the second-highest ranking Cablevision executive, tried talking Dolan out of naming Thomas even a part-time consultant.
mf
Mon Aug 9 2010 9:09 pm EST
Folks, you got to read that last article: .... But above all else, when you have an owner as clueless and arrogant as James Dolan, nothing can come as a surprise. Not for Knicks fans nor Rangers fans, who have watched their teams run into the ground over the last decade........
mf
Mon Aug 9 2010 9:07 pm EST
VOTE: Dolan's dumbest moves: ........ http://www.nypost.com/p/blogs/backpage/back_page_dolan_dumbest_moves_UjhKvk1rJiTJ7PjPKAYkcP
mf
Mon Aug 9 2010 9:00 pm EST
".... guy who basically follows a team and organization he hates.".. ....is that a fact?.....sounds like an opinion........with a broad brush. ....bong induced?
stevielegs
Mon Aug 9 2010 8:31 pm EST
td......I don't get it.....if the Dominic Moores and Thomas Pocks of the world are going to be chalked up as positive progress for the "new" NYR developmental system then I just don't get it. So, then every time a drafted player gets a cup of coffee with the NYR, then busts, leaves for nothing, or becomes a marginal AHL/NHL kind of guy, then that's it? Chalk up another big success story for the NYR? I don't get it at all. None of those guys made any difference. No impact. If Dubi blossoms, AA and DZ blossom and someone.............anyone ever makes an all-star team or takes on a lead scoring role for the team, then I'll be impressed..........................Changing gears......How great is it that Jimmy Dolan is getting publicly crucified on the sports talk shows, in the newspapers, etc..........That is the best thing that has happened all summer. This guy is being seriously exposed right now. Will it make a difference? Doubt it but it can't hurt. I hope Donnie Walsh walks and crucifies him too on the way out. The more negative stuff towards this guy the better. Maybe he'll lose it under the pressure and implode, making some idiotic remark to the media and Cablevision will have to remove him..............I can dream.
Ken
Mon Aug 9 2010 7:51 pm EST
TD: That is pretty funny coming from you. You've made so many ridiculous posts here that you started the whole bong-induced post thing.
Vic
Mon Aug 9 2010 7:51 pm EST
Rhet- I'm not a Kovalchuk fan, but he would be money much better spent than the Horror twins+. I'm betting he still signs with the Devils, but he can go back to Russia for all i care.
NYStranger
Mon Aug 9 2010 5:48 pm EST
Rhet - I'm not sure of that 'surprising' was sarcastic or not...but no surprise for me...that contract was simply ridiculous...my gut says he works out a larger deal with the Devils and they end up needing to move a contract or two...One team that wasn't mentioned prominently in the stakes was ST. LOUIS...I never really understood that because they have a TON of cap space, and frankly, I think IK would be an awesome fit on a team that made the Rangers' scoring woes seem like child's play.
tdchi
Mon Aug 9 2010 4:49 pm EST
Kovalchuk... My thinking is that he and the DEVILS rework the deal so it's closer to one of the deals the NHL has already accepted... BUT it also wouldn't surprise me to see him have discussions with other teams either... For those of you who want to see him sign here... we'd have to get rid of ROZI and another contract...besides burying REDDEN cap hit in the minors, just to afford him.
Rhet0ric
Mon Aug 9 2010 4:41 pm EST
It's now official Per TSN... Kovalchuk is an UFA.. SURPRISING... http://www.tsn.ca/
Rhet0ric
Mon Aug 9 2010 4:38 pm EST
KOVLCHUK is allegedly an UFA, The NHL won the decision.
Rhet0ric
Mon Aug 9 2010 4:26 pm EST
OLA: my point on Redden is that if you told me that this team could potentially win a cup I wouldn't hesitate to put him in the lineup. I just want to win. I am not suggesting that this scenario is true but again I will point out that I harbor no ill will to Redden. He was offered a contract and he signed it. It wasn't like he wasn't having these issues back in Ottawa. And to me salary aside, he has delivered as advertised (not by MSG but by reality)
E
Mon Aug 9 2010 3:15 pm EST
Vic – Funny, because I sometimes wonder why I bother proving myself to you, a guy who basically follows a team and organization he hates. The day you can prove a point with a single fact will be the day maybe someone here will take you seriously.
tdchi
Mon Aug 9 2010 1:41 pm EST
E $6.5 mil worth of wins, cap blocking players needed, like a center and a real D man, or Kovalchuk? ....he needed to go last year.
stevielegs
Mon Aug 9 2010 1:36 pm EST
Hard to believe the NYR's will be sharing a minor league developmental team with none other than the Philadelphia Flyers this season, but an announcement is expected soon of their new ECHL affiliation with the GREENVILLE ROAD WARRIORS. This will replace the Charlotte Checkers who are now the AHL affiliate of the Carolina Hurricanes. The new GRW's are the former Johnston Chiefs (movie "Slapshot") with NEAL SMITH as GM-President and part owner. Greenville. SC is a great town with close proximity to lakes and mountains, just down the hill, south of Asheville, NC. I spent time there and have seen a hockey game at their fairly nice downtown arena. It hasn't been a great market for hockey, but with the right ownership, marketing, and affiliations, the town has potential. It will be interesting to see Rangers and Flyers jerseys in the stands rooting for the same team.!!!! http://greenvilleroadwarriors.com/ -In more news, looks like the new identity of the Hartford Wolfpack will be the Connecticut Whalers this season....
888
Mon Aug 9 2010 1:24 pm EST
KEN: Don't bother. You are wasting your time arguing with TD. He only sees the world through MSG colored glasses.
Vic
Mon Aug 9 2010 1:14 pm EST
Just to clarify, "Pock did as well" was meant to read..."play full seasons in the NHL" not on the Canadians' second line ;)
tdchi
Mon Aug 9 2010 1:12 pm EST
Ken - See the problem is, you're being 100 percent subjective in your assessment...Guys like Moore, Korpikoski and Ortmeyer aren't allstars, but they're perfectly serviceable NHLers...all three have been skating full seasons on other teams, Moore was not only traded for a second-rounder, but was taking time on Montreal's SECOND LINE during their PO run!...Pock did as well before heading to Europe. Gilroy skated 69 games with the team and is basically a shoe-in for next year's top six, IMO...I don't even need to comment on AA and MDZ...these are two guys the organization has been very high on through the years and were given every chance to play through there mistakes last year...Look, none of these guys are looking like the next Crosby or Mike Green at this point...but they ARE NHLers...the only guys who appear to be done in the NHL that I listed are Pock and Hollweg, and there's a chance the latter suits up for Phoenix and Maloney, who likes the kid...And I don't know WHERE to go with your Malhotra-Dubinsky comparison. You do realize Dubinsky has netted 47 goals in three seasons, including his 20-goal campaign last year...St. Many, OTOH, has 90 goals in 12(!!) seasons, with a career high of 14...Look, I've shown you when the Rangers started moving young players up through the system and into their lineup. This simply wasn't happening during the first years of Sather's tenure. They'd have a token rookie in the lineup, and that's about it. And part of the reason for that is the system was basically devoid of talent....Messier11 - I have a tough time taking anyone who thinks Drury can't play third-line seriously.
tdchi
Mon Aug 9 2010 12:03 pm EST
E- No, no and NO! Reddens 6m for another 4 years makes completely impossible for this team to do anything, build anything. It's a god sent that Redden scored as little as he did last season so that we can dump him. He needs to go. That's so extremely valuble.
Ola
Mon Aug 9 2010 11:36 am EST
tdchi..........Of those 16 "NHLers"...........that's a stretch for 1/3 of them (Pock, Holly, Korpikoski, Gilroy)??? You're going to assert that these guys are some sort of evidence that a rebuild is in fact underway? There's Lundquist and Staal on the short list.......Callahan is there too. Dubi and Girardi have filled roles. That's where it ends for me. You can't say much about DZ or AA yet because no one knows yet. As for Dawes, Moore, Prucha and Ortmeyer, you are kidding right? How long did they wear the NYR uniform and what did they accomplish? The best of the rest of your list was Tyutin. Unfortunately, Tyutin equates to Zherdev, which equates to a big ZERO......td..your 15-20 homegrown NHLers as part of a NYR rebuild doesn't hold any water at all. That's a MAJOR reach and something I'd expect to read on the NYR official site or something......Hell, let's go back further and discuss how Garth Murray and Manny Malhotra helped the organization! Malhotra is probably every bit the player Dubi is. Now there's improvement! Bottom line, no progress has been made towards putting a homegrown young team on the ice that can actually win in the NHL. There is zero evidence of that. The team is still controlled and built around journeyman vets monopolizing the whole cap. It is most recently a non-PO team, maxed out cap wise, with the only homegrown guys on the roster filling lesser, support roles other than Hank, Staal and Calli. There simply 'aint much there.
Ken
Mon Aug 9 2010 10:53 am EST
stevielegs: if Redden plays well enough, I want him in the lineup. I want anyone in the lineup that equals wins. Winning is all that matters to me. It matters not how they do it. Meanwhile back on earth..
E
Mon Aug 9 2010 10:02 am EST
Hospo: You're probably right, although McDonagh, hopefully, is more defensively sound to begin with. I've never seen him play, but did see MDZ plenty of times as a junior and knew (and posted about it in here in fact) the weakest part of his game was his play without the puck. I didn't agree with keeping him with the Rangers last year and wouldn't be surprised if he ends up spending some time with Hartford this year. More often than sophomores slip and if MDZ slips, just how bad will he be defensively? That said, what cannot be denied is his skill level. He's got tons and can be taught how to be better defensively. Gilroy I never saw until training camp last year - he certainly was a very different player training camp vs regular season and deserved, IMO, banishment to Hartford. Of course, so did the both of the hoRRor twins...
RF4L
Mon Aug 9 2010 9:32 am EST
RF4L - Both GIlroyAnd Del Zotto looked worse after their initial burst in camp and the beggining of the season becasue the regualr NHL players were finally ready to play...Neither, especially Del Zotto, had a clue how to pley NHL defenseGiven the Rangers coaching and what they stress, not sure that will change this season......A big possibility the same will happen with Mcdonagh if he is forced into the line-up..
Hospo
Mon Aug 9 2010 8:54 am EST
Devils waiting for Ilya decision today........http://www.nypost.com/p/sports/devils/devils_waiting_for_ilya_decision_iUQLHFhUdm7CEg785Fcw6N
mf
Mon Aug 9 2010 8:49 am EST
Dolan/NBA.....Source: 2 owners rip Thomas deal,,,,,,,,,,,,,,http://www.nypost.com/p/sports/knicks/source_owners_rip_thomas_deal_IB9FyWuMq7Yhal65lbQApI
mf
Mon Aug 9 2010 8:00 am EST
stevie: Staal will be there, but I agree that both Eminger and Gilroy are bubble players. The former, however, very well may end up being the 7th d-man. I think Gilroy is going to have to have a strong camp to make the starting d lineup. I recall him having a very good camp last year, but the jump he showed quickly vanished when the season commenced. I'm not really sure why this happened - confidence perhaps?
RF4L
Mon Aug 9 2010 6:29 am EST
"...There's no doubt the plan calls for Redden to be waived at some point during camp so his $6.5 million albatross of a cap hit can be removed from the ledger when the season commences, no doubt whatsoever."................. What if Staal isn't there? What if Eminger is no better than he was last year (and why would he be)? What if Tortorella doesn't believe in Gilroy? What if -- don't laugh -- Redden plays well? What then?................... hey lb, how about you get held to your words? .......or trade him.......anything else is bs by you, and sather and his trained big mouthpiece........ Read more: http://www.nypost.com/p/sports/rangers/no_rangers_plan_for_better_redden_AAYW0XtKLjxTqn3HC5YOEK#ixzz0w6hTUJaY
stevielegs
Mon Aug 9 2010 1:26 am EST
its hard to take anything seriously from someone who has Drury anywhere on their ideal Rangers roster
Messier11
Sun Aug 8 2010 8:32 pm EST
http://www.cablevision.com/
mf
Sun Aug 8 2010 8:31 pm EST
http://finance.yahoo.com/q/pr?s=CVC+Profile
mf
Sun Aug 8 2010 8:31 pm EST
Rhet: What's to say? You hit the nail square on the head..... Maybe, if enough people sent a petition to corporate, the share-holders would demand Isaiah Thomas be removed for being the scum he is, and then Sather for the "fraud" he is..... Anyone here want to format a basic letter to circulate where folks could print it, sign it, & mail it in??
mf
Sun Aug 8 2010 6:39 pm EST
RHET--good post. I am absolutely disgusted by James Dolan and his unnatural fixation on Isiah. Isiah has ruined everything he has gotten his hands on, including the Knicks. I have paid zero attention to them since Isiah took over. I was a huge fan in the 70's. Goes to show you how locked in Sather is. We are stuck with hm.
Bob
Sun Aug 8 2010 5:48 pm EST
My ideal Ranger roster using those player: Prospal-Dubinsky-Gaborik, MZA-Anisimov-Callahan, Korpikoski-Drury-Prucha, Prust-Moore-Ortmeyer. Tyutin-MDZ, Staal-Girardi, McDonagh-Gilroy. And of course, Hank...Dany - I agree. What a lot of people don't remember is that the combination of Smith, Sather and Maloney drafting from 1995 to roughly 2003 left the farm system in SHAMBLES. There were two years that were basically a wash for the team(1996 and 1999)...2002 and 2003 were pretty bad too. Hartford was a wasteland of marginal AHLers, and there wasn't really much in the system either....But since then, there's been an upward trend...2004 produced three NHLers...2005 produced two and possible another two(Sauer and Dupont)...2006 has one and another that will probably make it this year(Sanguinetti)...2007 is a wash...HAGELIN is the only one out of that draft that has a chance(and a decent one at that BTW)...2008 could be a windfall for the team...MDZ already in the bigs, Stepan, Grachev, Kundratek and Weise all projected to be NHLers...and 2009 is looking half decent(Krieder, Bourque, Werek and Pashnin are all highly touted)....That's a pretty marked turn around for a farm system that was almost as much of a joke as the parent team was earlier this decade.
tdchi
Sun Aug 8 2010 5:25 pm EST
Ken - 2005(6): Lundqvist, Hollweg, Ortmeyer,Prucha, Moore, and Tyutin. 2006(2): Girardi and Pock.2007(4)Callahan, Staal, Dawes, and Dubinsky. 2008(1) Korpikoski..(admittedly, you got me there). 2009(3): Del Zotto, Anisimov, Gilroy...that's 16 homegrown guys over four years...I'm sure you can do the math, but that's an average of four per year...Despite Brooks' article, I have faith we'll see three of the following take roles next year: McDonagh, Zuccarello-Aasen, Stepan, Byers, and perhaps Sauer...True, Sather ditched a number of the guys I've listed(half, to be exact). But you now have a Ranger roster with eight guys that were brought into the system...and were it not for Sather's infernal tinkering, there'd be more more...Ortmeyer, Korpikoski, Prucha and Moore could all be worthy contributors on this roster.
tdchi
Sun Aug 8 2010 3:56 pm EST
Homegrown is great if you have the talent coming up to go that rout. Finally, we are starting to get there. There was no way we could have had a decent homegrown team while Maloney was drafting because of the crap he was drafting.
Danylo Halytskyj
Sun Aug 8 2010 2:47 pm EST
Homegrown does not equal: winner. There is sometimes that opposite assumption here. There is also an assumption that homegrown also equals chemistry. Again, not true.
E
Sun Aug 8 2010 2:23 pm EST
the fish always starts to stink from the head - this particular fish was rotten long before he gained control of MSG. What we Rangers & Knicks fans have done to be shafted like this I'll never know.
NYStranger
Sun Aug 8 2010 12:26 pm EST
MF... Great article by Mike Lupica recounting the whole ISIAH THOMAS firing... His being found guilty of sexual harassment and DOLAN firing the girl when she went to complain about it... Best Quote from the article... "Despite all of that, despite that Thomas' creepy behavior cost Dolan $11.6 million on top of the fortune Thomas had already wasted on bad basketball players, Dolan treats him like some sort of genius, one who apparently will have a job for life on 33rd St." ...Sounds familiar, doesn't it? THOMAS is despised by KNICK fans, but the owner could care less. For those of you that are not Basketball fans, it will give you a lot of insight in to the owner of the RANGERS.... http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/basketball/knicks/2010/08/07/2010-08-07_even_now_new_york_knicks_owner_james_dolan_and_isiah_thomas_deserve_each_other.html
Rhet0ric
Sun Aug 8 2010 11:25 am EST
tdchi..............You're statement......"There was no rebuild." A personal favorite of mine. The organization has brought in between three and five home-grown players per year since the lockout."...............3-5 per year huh? Wow! that's a lot of "homegrown" players in five years! I'm no math wizard but can you please list the 15-20 "homegrown" players the NYR have "brought in" in that time? You also say a hockey team is a business and must make $$$...........How about winning? The NYR will make plenty of $$$ no matter what they do (obviously), so why does making $$$ even factor into the equation here? Dude, if you actually can list those 15-20 players and show me how a "rebuild" was actually carried out here and I was somehow unaware of it, go for it........I'm waiting.........I'll warn you though, my definition of a rebuild is seeing vets cleared out along with their salsries and young, homegrown players taking the lead roles on the team with the team subsequently showing growth and upward direction (ie: making progress to becoming a team capable of competing for a championship someday in its future)..........I can't wait to hear how you spin this positively.
Ken
Sun Aug 8 2010 9:22 am EST
No Rangers' plan for better Redden...........http://www.nypost.com/p/sports/rangers/no_rangers_plan_for_better_redden_AAYW0XtKLjxTqn3HC5YOEK
mf
Sun Aug 8 2010 9:20 am EST
myth buster, ghost buster, opinion, home grown, rebuild, tank, ......wow, ........meds. pansies, hungover.................this is is supposedly from hockey news in pecking order by position " ......FORWARDS LW——- Vaclav Prospal Alexander Frolov Sean Avery Derek Boogaard Dane Byers* Evgeny Grachev* Justin Soryal* Matt McCue* Devin Didiomete* Chris Chappell* Ethan Werek* Jason Wilson* Chris Kreider* Carl Hagelin* Greg Beller* Center—- Brandon Dubinsky Chris Drury Artem Anisimov Erik Christensen Todd White Brian Boyle Derek Stepan* Kris Newbury Brodie Dupont* Ryan Bourque* Andrew Yogan* Max Campbell* Daniel Hobbs* Lukas Zeliska* Roman Horak* RW—— Marian Gaborik Ryan Callahan Brandon Prust Mats Zuccarello-Aasen* Dale Weise* Jeremy Williams Christian Thomas* Randy McNaught* David Kveton* David Skokan* Jesper Fasth* Zdenek Bahensky* Roman Psurny* Defense—— Marc Staal Michal Rozsival Michael Del Zotto Dan Girardi Wade Redden Matt Gilroy Steve Eminger Ryan McDonagh* Michael Sauer* Nigel Williams* Lee Baldwin* Tysen Dowzak* Sam Klassen* Tomas Kundratek* Jyri Niemi* Dylan McIlrath* Daniel Maggio* Pavel Valentenko* Mikhail Pashnin* Ivan Baranka* Ilkka Heikkinen* Goalies—- Henrik Lundqvist Martin Biron Chad Johnson* Cameron Talbot* Scott Stajcer*......................".........impressive, suck-ass, possibilities......hope , hopeless........wait and see.......sos.......sather is the man for dopey jimmy, and tortorells will take the credit , or throw everyone else under the bus.........cap-blockers................
stevielegs
Sun Aug 8 2010 9:19 am EST
PUckyou - Didn't read the Brooks article, but if he is talking about shoddy D, he is right on...with ot without Stal...couldn't be worse....ANd he's bang on about WHite and Chritensen, they will be top 12 fowards on this miserable team.......TDCH -Oh, the Wall Myth Bull shit again..To each man, his own myth........SOME people on here dfeinetely over-rate the Ranger propspects, others perhaps undervalue them...No myth...
Hospo
Sun Aug 8 2010 9:17 am EST
OMG, reading LB's column today sure hits home how lousy this team is. Christensen/White/AA as the top 3 centers? LOLOLOLOL. Sean Couturier! Sean Couturier! Sean Couturier!
RF4L
Sun Aug 8 2010 8:34 am EST
TD agree and disagree, I agree with Myth1, but Myth 2, that's silly no team announces before the season starts we will try to lose every game. Further more, the garden sells win, or lose which makes that even less true. The Rangers missed the playoffs and played horrid the year before they won the cup, that next season the garden was still packed. The last myth is wierd we do not have 3-5 home grown guys coming in every year if that were true after the last four years this team would be almost home grown and it's not close.
York18
Sun Aug 8 2010 8:31 am EST
And Monk...you're a card. You're saying we as Ranger fans are pussies because we haven't decapitated a former player to make a point to the team's lame-ass GM? Meds dude. Meds. And lots of them from the sound of it.
tdchi
Sun Aug 8 2010 8:28 am EST
Wall myth #1: "The Rangers' young players are so overrated." By who? Who are these people gushing over young players? And who is to say they're all bad, since most of them haven't even seen ice at the pro level? Wall myth #2: "The Rangers should tank to get a first-overall pick." Unless you're Mario Lemiuex, this simply isn't an option. NHL teams are businesses, and in as much, they must make MONEY. Tanking teams don't make money, PERIOD. Wall myth #3: "The Rangers could have traded Jagr and all the vets in 2007 or 2008 and they would have gotten top picks and/or prospects." Unless you're the Thrashers circa 2007, GMs DON'T overpay for rental players. Think about this logically, people. Ever heard the phrase 'get what you paid for?' Well turn it around. Besides, according to some, Sather can't draft anyway, so what sense would it be to get a satchel full of picks? Myth #4: "There was no rebuild." A personal favorite of mine. The organization has brought in between three and five home-grown players per year since the lockout. There are prospects in the system that are highly regarded throughout the NHL. This from a club that had LEE FALARDEU as it's top prospect not too long ago....I'm sure there are more Wall myths, but I'm too hungover to think about them right now.
tdchi
Sun Aug 8 2010 7:52 am EST
Brooks' article talks about shoddy Ranger D with Staal unsigned, and hints that MZA/Avery may be odd men out with glut of forwards. Larry is somehow giving White & Christensen regular spots simply because they are centers-moving Dubi & Drury to wings-therefore assuming Avery/MZA out. I'm betting MZA plays like a top 6 fwd in pre-season, and one of the other stiffs sits.
puckyou
Sat Aug 7 2010 10:59 pm EST
SCKME, you sound just like every other woman in your family, sweet bitch. Have a nice weekend.
FerociousMonk
Sat Aug 7 2010 8:01 pm EST
Oh man, he's got his A material out today. Save some for the late show, champ.
ScMePlz
Sat Aug 7 2010 3:14 pm EST
A trip to Banff is never wasted, as long as you know what to do when you're there. Let's just say they put two F's in the name for a reason. Bring your Capital One card and some disinfectant.
FerociousMonk
Sat Aug 7 2010 3:00 pm EST
FM- MacDonald jokes? Sather wouldn't take the hint and it;s up to Jimmy boy to hire a new GM if he did, so I think the money spent on plane tickets to Banff would be wasted.
ColoradoMark
Sat Aug 7 2010 2:42 pm EST
CM....For one, if there were any Ranger fans with any guts out there, Sather would wake up one morning with Hugh Jessiman's head in his bed. But either you are scared of Sather, scared of horses, hold horses sacred, hold Sather sacred, or all of the above. I cannot do it as my busy work schedule will not allow. And let's skip the slap-happy wise ass MacDonald's jokes. I'm serious as Dick Cheney's heart condition. ACT LIKE A MAN!!
FerociousMonk
Sat Aug 7 2010 12:13 pm EST
from carpy.... gabby gaborik ......http://rangers.nhl.com/club/news.htm?id=535355&navid=DL|NYR|home
stevielegs
Sat Aug 7 2010 10:18 am EST
OMG, the Forsberg comeback stories are more tiring than the ugliness of myrtle turtle's head!
RF4L
Sat Aug 7 2010 10:18 am EST
the nba and nhl should buy dolan out, he's a disgrace, a real pos.
stevielegs
Sat Aug 7 2010 9:29 am EST
NBA could block deal............... The NBA might save James Dolan from himself. The league is investigating whether Isiah Thomas’ consulting contract with the Knicks while he is the Florida International head coach abides by NBA rules. The NBA conceivably could block the move. NBA front-office personnel are not allowed to have contact with college players until they declare for the draft. Thomas’ role as consultant was specified in a Knicks release as advising on the college draft. “We are reviewing the agreement, in consultation with the Knicks, for compliance with league rules,” NBA PR chief Tim Frank said. The NCAA, after reviewing the issue, said the deal sounded kosher. Read more: http://www.nypost.com/p/sports/knicks/nba_could_block_deal_wI61zO55Tpn6KZiikOa9CO#ixzz0vvkSBO4Z
mf
Sat Aug 7 2010 9:13 am EST
FORSBERG... I saw this a couple of days ago and just blew it off... There is nothing in that article that suggests that the RANGERS are pursuing FOPPA... It's just one of those articles that says he is planning on making a return to the NHL and gives the usual suspects as to where he might land... The same type of article they write every year... It does mention that he is iinterested the most in a return to COLORADO... with them currently under the cap floor, it seems like it would be a good fit... SUNDIN... Not one mention of him in the article... he's retired.
Rhet0ric
Sat Aug 7 2010 8:30 am EST
An interesting article on Sean Couturier, one of the early favourites vying for the first overall selection in next June's amateur draft, a position the Rangers realistically have a chance at landing. A strong 2-way center who is big, can score and knows the defensive side of the game. He's currently 1 of 2 under 18 year olds at Canada's WJC training camp: http://www.hockeycanada.ca/index.php/ci_id/16980/la_id/1/ss_id/57000/nr_id/135789.htm
RF4L
Sat Aug 7 2010 6:52 am EST
sather's daily reading.... http://www.nhl.com/ice/news.htm?id=533739
stevielegs
Sat Aug 7 2010 6:02 am EST
York18, I absolutely remember. You would bring up the name, Larry Gordon, as one of the key contributors to the success of those Oiler teams. Good to see you back on the wall again Yorkie.
DREW
Sat Aug 7 2010 5:00 am EST
There is no secret I never wanted Sather here. Long before he ever stepped foot as the Rangers GM I was bashing this guy. He is an absolute fraud. He took credit for the hard work of so many people. He was a coach on a team a monkey could have coached and won a cup. He wasn't the GM, or scout when the core of that team was drafted, but he sure takes credit for it. Once his core was gone and he had to prove he could GM and win he lost and didn't do crap, he has been a joke ever since which is why he is no longer spoken about in high reguard in Canada.
York18
Fri Aug 6 2010 11:41 pm EST
FM- What exactly do you think we should do about it? DREW- I remember the talk when Sather was hired, it was a lot about his record over the previous 10 years (or lack thereof). I was at the Red Wings Massacre on a trip to New York, when Muckler and Smith were fired after a humiliating loss at home. The next day it was crazy. I think everyone felt there needed to be a change, but not many of the wallsters were excited by what Sather had to offer. On DOM MOORE- Don't get me wrong, I liked the guy when he was here. But he has been traded, signed and traded how many times since he left here? There has to be something about him that causes teams to give up on him. I didn't see the need to trade him (especially for the loser, Adam Hall) but I don't think it was Sather's worst move. And someone mentioned Malhotra- the guy has had a steady, unremarkable career. He's a servicable player, but he wouldn't have had it here. There was too much unfulfilled hype and he would always have the "third liner" ceiling comment hanging over his head. He needed to go if he was going to have any kind of career. I'll always remember him dropping the gloves and sucker punching Ken Danyko, though. That was golden. It's the only way I can get through an MSG broadcast with him on it. I just replay that highlight reel over in my head as he squeaks on and on. God I hate the @%# Devils.
ColoradoMark
Fri Aug 6 2010 11:06 pm EST
If anyone here had the guts, you'd be doing something about it. But you're all just too scared.
FerociousMonk
Fri Aug 6 2010 8:46 pm EST
Ken, myrtletrailers is a glory-hole engineer/tool! Please disregard any of his posts.
pa.rangersfan
Fri Aug 6 2010 6:32 pm EST
Hospo: You are so upbeat. I don't think that this is a team not one notch over a 10 seed.
E
Fri Aug 6 2010 4:37 pm EST
And, hey, Sundin with Jagr a few years back might have made some sense!
Hospo
Fri Aug 6 2010 4:37 pm EST
KEN - Far from the darkest (Umm..Bill Berg, Jeff Toms, Brian Skrduladand, Mike Keane, Tim Sweeney, Kevin Stevens, Bruce Drive and jeff Finley on the same team!) but I understand where you are coming from with your recent surrender and your revived anit-Sather zealotry..! :
Hospo
Fri Aug 6 2010 4:24 pm EST
MyrtleTrailers..........You are kidding right? To all, I just cannot believe that it is true, that Jimmy Boy is bringing Isiah Thomas back..........so I guess if a guy can suck at his job, embarrass his employer, cost them over $11 million in a lawsuit then get brought back.....................well, then what chance is there that Sather will ever have to answer for anything he does........You're killing me MyrtleTrailer.........Forsberg and Sundin? Oh my god I need a drink. Sure, why wouldn't Staal want to play here his whole career? These are the absolute worst of times, the darkest period in the long pathetic history of the NYR. I'm gonna get that drink now.
Ken
Fri Aug 6 2010 3:49 pm EST
Tikk- all I said was that it helps, nothing more nothing less. I didn't say that everyone in the league would want to come here no matter what. But for sure it helps, and in some cases, probably by a lot.
Ola
Fri Aug 6 2010 3:24 pm EST
lets start planning the parade boys, As I was perusing through a swedish newspaper website today, I stumbled upon a very interesting article, guess who is rumored to be coming to the Rangers..... Forsberg and Sundin.......
myrtletrailers
Fri Aug 6 2010 2:54 pm EST
tdchi..............you said "Absent Jagr, the Rangers would have been a mediocre team in 2006...their mediocrity would have continued through to this day..."............Really? Would have? Two would haves? When were they not mediocre? Since when is winning one round, then getting convincingly ousted 4 games to 1 not considered a mediocre season? Man, we have lowered our expectations. Making the POs sucks just as bad as missing them like last year in my book. 7th place, 10th place. Both are in nowhere land if you really care about winning....."Winning" meaning winning a championship.
Ken
Fri Aug 6 2010 2:46 pm EST
DREW.......I brought the same thing up recently. I was miserable at the time because I wanted the Big Deal Neil to make up for dismantling our young group for the cup by shipping Leetch, Messier, Richter and Graves (my fav) so as to do what was right for the org. We got Wayne Gretzky and company instead.......Typical. When Neil went, I was VERY hopeful that Sather would rebuild or at least stop the insanity (McSorley/Kurri anyone?)...........I argued in Sather's defense as move by move by move he proved me to be dead ass wrong to believe in him.......In 2004, I said, OK, finally, this is it..........again, dead wrong. He waited way too long to unload vets, got nothing in return......the kids were soooooooo overated (I bought it I'll admit). Then, here comes Jagr wrapped in a nice little NYR PR wrapper.......We "stole" him, the Caps are paying half his $$$, they took Snoop Carter, etc........OK, I'll buy it........well then came Nylander, then Straka, Rosival resigns, a gray bearded Shanahan, then the whole cap goes to Gomez, Drury, Redden...........meanwhile, our prospects bust and fall on their swords one by one.................It was all complete BS. There never was a rebuild, there never was going to be one.......that's why I say, F**k Sather, to hell with the cap, bring in some guys who can compete then......Sather has been on this "competitve rebuild" BS campaign for 10 years. Good enough not to completely suck and spending the whole cap to do it. Despite what others argue, the drafting has been abysmal. Yes TEN YEARS!!! What a job! We didn't make the POs and had little hope when he arrived, we are right there today. The worst part to me is what our competitors have accomplished in that same amount of time. Makes us look more ridiculous than at the end of Neil's tenure........You don't think Marc Staal and his family talk about this at the dinner table? I'll bet Staal and Dubi and Calli will be goners within a few years and Hank will still be treading water in his 30s........The latest crop of underachieving overpaid bums will be stinking the place out and we'll be bickering over what should be done. Hopeless.
Ken
Fri Aug 6 2010 2:41 pm EST
Bob – Smith was hire by the Islanders for a few weeks...not sure of that counts...Ken – Disaster? Jagr? F-No I wouldn't agree with that statement at all. Absent Jagr, the Rangers would have been a mediocre team in 2006...their mediocrity would have continued through to this day...you can't have one of the best goaltenders in the world between the pipes and expect to lose enough games to draft first overall. And if you look at some of those teams that DID draft first overall during the Jagr years, you'll see that even without Jagr, the Rangers wouldn't have been even close...As I alluded before...it's nice to play this revisionist history, but in truth, there was really only one option: Go for it...they had Jagr, he was doing good, they had Hank, he was doing good...Unfortunately, as Hospo said, Sather went for it in a very half-assed way and ended up short during the two years he might have been able to make a serious run...and that leads us to the present...and BTW...any trade that wiped SNOOP off the roster was a good trade in my opinion. He ranks as one of my least favorite Rangers ever.
tdchi
Fri Aug 6 2010 2:29 pm EST
Rhet0ric.......Even Sather would have avoided the "Huge Jessibust" pick had he been drafting where real rebuilding teams draft..........top 3-5 OA. Draft there for 2-4 years and you can't help but have a great chance to land great players. Draft 10-20 OA every year going halfway and you get what we got. Crap in a nice NYR PR wrapper.
Ken
Fri Aug 6 2010 2:11 pm EST
Check this out, from the Daily News........ According to a person close to Thomas, he has convinced Dolan that if he were in charge of the Knicks' free agent recruiting efforts, he could do a better job than team president Donnie Walsh or coach Mike D'Antoni of convincing the NBA's young stars to come to New York. In July, the Knicks will have enough salary cap space to sign a max free agent. Dolan apparently believes that Thomas can deliver Denver's Carmelo Anthony.......................there is truly no hope for either of these franchises.
Bob
Fri Aug 6 2010 2:07 pm EST
DREW---I hated the Sather hire because of his running his mouth about the Rangers ruining the league while he was in Edmonton. Who could forget his "If I had the Rangers resources, I would win the cup every year." Bettman pushed the Garden hard to hire Sather. As soon as he got to NY, he started throwing money around as badly or worse than Neil Smith did. Ever notice that Smith has competed for but not won about 10 jobs as GM's of NHL teams since the Sakic offer sheet. He is still blackballed for that. RHET--I can't stand the sight of Isiah's mug. He utterly destroyed the Knicks, but if not for the Anucha harrassment would never have been canned. It really is hopeless so long as that rich excuse for a frat boy is running the Garden. When I think of the old Knicks, I feel sorry for them. They must hang their heads in shame over what the franchise has become. Watch out, Donnie Walsh. Your replacement is in the building.
Bob
Fri Aug 6 2010 1:55 pm EST
BOB... There are many that believe that this is a precurser to DOLAN reinstating him as GM/President... He is supposedly very close to DOLAN(I think they even sexually harass women together)... it was also ISIAH whom he sent in a last ditch effort to sign LEBRON... DOLAN is the blight on both of these franchises... Any 1/2 decent owner would've already fired SATHER... There is word that both CARMELO ANTHONY and PAUL PIERCE want to play for the KNICKS... according the the DAILY NEWS... ISIAH has convinced JIMMY boy that he's the guy that can recruit them... even after he left the KNICKS in a complete shambles... I like DONNIE WALSH and think he done a very good job with what he's had to work with... he definitely deserves better.
Rhet0ric
Fri Aug 6 2010 1:51 pm EST
Do you remember how you felt when Sather was hired? It is a non-confrontational question. I just can't believe it's been over 10 years. As I am reading everyone's post, it has been taking me back to my feelings on the team and it's future. Like how I felt at the purging of 04. Bob's post really had me thinking. How did you honestly feel about the team's fortune's in 2000 when Sather was hired? I was personally thankful for a change and then started scratching my head when he let Schneider walk and signed Malakhov. Do we still have access to the Graffiti Wall archives?
DREW
Fri Aug 6 2010 1:30 pm EST
Really.....hope is lost until the Rangers are sold to someone else. We are stuck with Sather, and Idiot Dolan just hired Isiah Thomas back. Unbelievable.
Bob
Fri Aug 6 2010 1:25 pm EST
KEN... Everyone that wants a rebuild seems to forget that with SATHER at the helm, we would still pick the wrong guy :) ...HUGE JESSIBUST... With the Blackhawks signing him, does it mean that he actually plays a game in the NHL? He would lose his distinction as being the only 1st Rounder from 2003 to not play in at least one NHL game... that would mean no one will remember him... except for Ranger fans of course.
Rhet0ric
Fri Aug 6 2010 1:16 pm EST
tdchi.........so let ME get this straight then.......if as you say, JJ was basically untradable at the height of his run with the NYR, would you then admit that the Carter for JJ trade was in fact a DISASTER for the NYR..........That it basically spelled the end for the NYR "rebuild" before it ever got off the ground? That JJ was in fact primarily responsible (with Hank) for the NYR not having the opportunity to draft the star elite forwards roaming the NHL today? For the pathetic chain of events that has led us to this day? The Caps were willing to eat half JJ's contract......and yeah, we got a great deal.......sure we did.
Ken
Fri Aug 6 2010 1:08 pm EST
Hospo asked......................"Is this correct? as it stands, the Rangers defense is Staal, Girardii, Roszy,Redden,Del Zotto,Emminger....and Gilroy...with McDonagh possibly coming to the rescue? face it guys, it doesn't get much worse then that defensively..." Yep! And, Sather has drafted better at the D position in the first round than any other position........how sad is that? That's how putrid Sather's 10 year draft record with the NYR has been........Two impact players, one in the 7th round and he obviously didn't know what he had in Hank because he drafted Blackburn and Montoya after that!!! Excellent work!
Ken
Fri Aug 6 2010 1:02 pm EST
WADE REDDEN... While it's certain he will be in camp for the team... IMO, he needs to blow the doors off to make this team... and I just don't see that happening... If REDDEN isn't demoted, it means we are saying goodbye to Marc Staal and that Ryan McDonagh doesn't have a shot at making the team this year (because we wouldn't have the cap space for either)... I don't believe this is the case... maybe there is a deal out there with another team that is willing to take ROZI off our hands for a prospect or a pick, but I think it would've been done already if it was going to happen... All of the Rangers beat writers are convinced that REDDEN will be demoted, even NEWSDAY (which is owned by CABLEVISION)... while I do think it's a distinct possibility, there is one option here we are overlooking... WADE and his wife live in NYC... perhaps he doesn't want to be demoted and refuses to report to HARTFORD... if this happened, the two sides could then mutually agree to a CONTRACT TERMINATION... which would then make REDDEN an UFA and also get him off our books...(a la Petr Sykora)... The Rangers have already paid REDDEN $16 Mil and he has roughly $23 Mil left on his current deal... maybe he feels he could get close to that with another team... who knows, there is probalby more than one GM out there that thinks they can fix what ails REDDEN, the cap hit for him would be a heck of a lot less than what we currently have for him... I guess it will all come down to EGO... TD... First off, There is no way in the world the RANGERS are giving up anything close to that in a deal for SPEZZA, That's more than any star player has gone for over the years... From everything I've read, interest in him was luke warm at best... It seems many teams in the League even felt that Spezza was overpaid at his production level... that's the real reason why the SENS came out and said that Spezza is "in for the longhaul and a franchise player"...IMO, It's nothing more than positive Spin Doctoring...
Rhet0ric
Fri Aug 6 2010 12:51 pm EST
E - yes, Christiansen, Prospal, Frolov,Emminger and Todd White..The rebuild is a juggernaut that won't be stopped! Yes, I know, we have quite a few kids that are close to contributing which is a good thing.....we'll see...
Hospo
Fri Aug 6 2010 12:46 pm EST
tdchi........I think the one thing that you are not factoring in is the "addition by subtraction" part. Who you got back for guys like JJ and Nylander didn't matter as much as clearing the cap, giving you a lot of options. Also, accumulating multiple draft choices, increasing your odds of making a miracle pick. I feel the same way now about Drury, Rosival, Prospal, etc. Trade them all for picks for all I care. Just clear the roster out for the kids AND give me some breathing room so maybe I can entertain a big signing or trade for a big $$$ player. Not trading guys like that (or JJ, etc.) leaves you where we are.......stuck in mud.
Ken
Fri Aug 6 2010 12:39 pm EST
Vic....for your Friday, 8/6, 8:03AM post.......Bravo, perfectly said. That time and opportunity has unfortunately passed us by and we missed the bus..........Now, with a stable of mid-level prospects, a few mid-level young players on the team, a poor draft year ahead, and some soon to expire big contracts, Sather needs to do his job in a different way............it should be easy for him. Pick the biggest names and get them in blue. Being "patient" now with what we have won't accomplish much. This is not the time to be patient. Allowing those big contracts to slowly walk away and filling the gaps from within will not be good enough. We will be worse two years from now because there is very little chance that any of our up and comers will be better than Drury or Prospal are right now...........we're so screwed. Just blow it up again, reshuffle this deck hard and let's move on. If you're going to have your cap tied up, have it tied up in something worthwhile.
Ken
Fri Aug 6 2010 12:21 pm EST
E: You're right, but it's an assbackwards way to rebuild and I maintain when you add up the pain at the end of it all, if done right (therein lays the key), bottoming out equates to less pain.
RF4L
Fri Aug 6 2010 12:15 pm EST
Heh!!! Don't look now but we are rebuilding. Suffer and suck it up
E
Fri Aug 6 2010 11:59 am EST
td: Yes.
RF4L
Fri Aug 6 2010 11:54 am EST
RF4L - So let me get this straight...after tearing down the team in 2004...lacing up an almost wholly different roster in 2006...'tinkering' for ARGUABLY two years...then overhauling both the management, roster and pretty much everything(save for the first-year captain)...that's not 'blowing up' a roster?!? Really?!? Vic – I've stated my side of the argument with plenty of facts...you want to ignore them? Fine...but here's some more for you...in 2007, Philly 'dumped' Forsberg, who again, didn't have NEARLY the contract/cap hit Jagr did($5.75 million versus $8.3 million)...what did Philly get you ask? Ryan Parent(who was recently dumped for the rights to negotiate with Hamhius), Scottie Upshall(who was traded WITH a second round pick for Carcillo) and two draft picks...now one of those picks was used to trade for the rights to negotiate with Timmonen and Hartnell(not the contracted players, mind you)...and the other was dealt for a minor league toiler...so what was the result of that trade? Carcillo, period. That's who they got for Forsberg in the end. So please do tell me where all these GREAT trade values were...am I missing them? But wait, there's more...For shits and grins, I took a look at some of the 2007-2008 playoff contenders that could have fit Jagr under the cap during his final year(mind you, at a time when the Rangers themselves were in the playoff hunt and NO rational GM on the planet would have traded his top star)...there were a whopping THREE...Washington(and like that was going to happen), San Jose and Nashville. That's it. So I don't know where you get this idea that Jagr was such a high commodity, but it's patently ridiculous...And I defy you to give me on iota of a fact to suggest otherwise...Look, blame Sather for the lame things that he DOES do, not the things that he couldn't do even if he wanted to.
tdchi
Fri Aug 6 2010 10:46 am EST
Hospo: Totally agree (although I maintain they were a lot closer to achieving a tear down than going for it, but it's too subjective to truly agrue about now).
RF4L
Fri Aug 6 2010 10:24 am EST
RF4L/VIC/TDCHI - The bottom line is that after the first year of the Renney ERA, (and since then), the Rangers had the opportunity to either GO FOR IT by making a few significant deals at the deadline or TEARING T IT DOWN...Sather did neither, and why the rangers continue in the morass of mediocrity (at best)...The moves of this summer don't point to any Philospohy shift either...but, we'll see what happens
Hospo
Fri Aug 6 2010 10:22 am EST
RF4L: Yeah, that is the point that I was trying to make as well.
Vic
Fri Aug 6 2010 10:08 am EST
TD: Like I said, just forget it. You and I are talking completely past each other. The year in question was the 06-07 year. SMYTH was one of the deals but there were many others and SMYTH wasn't even a big one in my opinion. Anything after the 07 deadline was already past the insane deals time frame. I wasn't as interested in players coming back in those deals as I was the draft picks and the fact that trading away those players would ensure that the Rangers were a worst overall type team that had a chance to draft guys like KANE, van RIEMSDYK, STAMKOS, DOUGHTY, BOGOSIAN, TAVARAS, DUCHENE, etc. You can argue that JJ wasn't a guy that could be moved due to the salary issue but you can't prove it. There were guys making more money then him at the time and he was better then all of them at the time.
Vic
Fri Aug 6 2010 9:58 am EST
To me, 'blowing up' a team involves jettisoning the leadership on the club. Keeping JJ and the bulk of his posse is not blowing things up. Sather made a series of moves between the end of the 05/06 season and the start of the 07/08 season in a flawed attempt at first keeping the core together and then adding to it. His biggest mistake was failing to realize that the JJ magic was fleeting - it lasted less than 1 year - the team started slipping right after the Olympics in the winter of 06. The inconsistent play we have seen way too much of over the past few years commenced right after those Olympics. Sather, failing to realize he'd captured lightning in a bottle, started his tinkering that off-season, adding the likes of Shanahan and Adam Hall, while letting go important foot soldiers like Dom Moore. The core (JJ and his posse) remained intact. There were some good moments that season and some bad - the bad being more and more of the inconsistent play. Sather's response was to intensify his tinkering in the summer of 07 to the point where he brought in 2 expensive UFAs in an attempt to pass the leadership torch from one entity to the next. Alas, that leadership was waning to the point where it hardly existed anymore. Things had gotten so bad in that regard, the team had to rely on a petulant 3rd liner for inspiration. Now that's some kind of leadership, isn't it? What he should have done was trade JJ, Shannie, Rozey, Malk et all at the deadline in the winter of 07. Now that would have been blowing things up. Alas, he didn't and here we are nearly 3 and 1/2 years later with the team capped out, talent challenged and looking at a 7th or 8th PO seed finish as a good year. Nice job Sather!
RF4L
Fri Aug 6 2010 9:48 am EST
Is this correct? as it stands, the Rangers defense is Staal, Girardii, Roszy,Redden,Del Zotto,Emminger....and Gilroy...with McDonagh possibly coming to the rescue? face it guys, it doesn't get much worse then that defensively...
Hospo
Fri Aug 6 2010 9:28 am EST
Ola - I would not say the answer is easy....just because one player came here, does not mean they all will. Most players who came to the NYR were taking the money. Now that things are on a more even playing field, that is not always the case. Brooks Orpik took less money to play for a winning team. So the answer is not an easy Yes.
Tikkanen
Fri Aug 6 2010 8:46 am EST
If the question is, is it easier to get players to this Org since they play in NY? -- the answear is easy; sure it is. MZA is one example, he said it himself BTW. Sunny and Näslund had told him that it was à special experience. Hospo- yeah but the euros shouldn't get all the credit, there are a few NA bums too like Gomez, redden and co.
Ola
Fri Aug 6 2010 8:43 am EST
Vic - The problem is you contradict yourself repeatedly...The two examples I gave you of YOUNG all-stars getting moved at the deadline(Smyth in 2007 and Hossa in 2008) haven't brought any sort of windfall for the clubs that traded them. The Oilers now have Alex Plante, a rookie defender who MIGHT just make the NHL, as their soul possession for trading their top player...The Thrashers have a guy named Daultan Leveille who is a LONG shot to ever make the pros and Angelo Esposito, who is also still questionable...Still, you ignore my main point, which is that the most valuable asset the Rangers had back then(JAGR) would have landed a $8.3 MILLION CAP HIT. Do you understand? Most cup-contending teams couldn't have afforded him in the first place, because the pre-lockout cash deal with Washington would have come off the books...this was WIDELY reported and WIDELY ignored by fans such as yourself...As for the definition of 'blowing up' a team, I really don't see how you get a more functional one...between the draft of 2008 and fall of 2008, Sather swapped out EIGHT of 22 players...between the draft of 2009 and the fall of 2009, Sather swapped out 10 of 22 players...And that's not even figuring in what he DID trade during the season. Frankly, I can't think of a GM that has 'blown up' a roster MORE times than Sather, and that's one of the MAIN reasons we're stuck in goddamn mediocrity, IMO...So maybe you should define exactly what you mean by 'blowing up' and how exactly it would have benefited the team back then...certainly, I'd take an Alex Plante or an Angelo Esposito(still like the kid personally) over what Sather DID get back for those guys, which is nothing...but to think that he missed out on some sort of holey grail is just plain asinine.
tdchi
Fri Aug 6 2010 8:18 am EST
Dany - if you looked at the players Gomez and Drury are(or were), there were clear indications that neither would be good for Jagr's centerman...Gomez, one could argue, maybe...but there were plenty of folks who were raising questions about whether the two would work from day one...Jagr is a puck-possession player who likes to control the play. Gomez, although he ain't exactly great at it, is the same type. Fire and water...Spezza is a number-one center, plain and simple. He's skated with another sniper named Heatley, who is a similar type of player as Gaborik. And guess what? They did pretty darn good together...why I'm debating this, however, is beyond me. I would be floored if SPEZZA ever comes to NY. Ottawa has backed off any indication that they might trade him and frankly there's no cap room...so it's moot. If you want to pick an argument, at least pick on that's relevant.
tdchi
Fri Aug 6 2010 8:03 am EST
TD: I almost wanted to ignore your post because I have beaten this topic to death over the years and I'm just tired of talking about it. All I am going to tell you is two things. First, what you call "blowing up" and what I call "blowing up" are two different things. What SATHER has done does not qualify as blowing up a team. If you want me to elaborate I can but to give you a snippet, you don't blow up by bringing in a JJ while selling other vets. You don't blow up by turning over half your team each year including signing high dollar UFAs. You blow up by selling off all of your veteran assets and start rebuilding your organization from the ground up. Second, you are looking at deadline returns from the last few years and making the comment that the Rangers wouldn't have gotten much in return. That is a flawed approach. The reason why the returns aren't great now is that they were insane the year that I wanted the Rangers to sell off all of the veterans. I have posted a long list of those deals here in the past and I can tell you that a guy like JJ would have brought back a king's ransom, not to mention what NYLANDER, STRAKA and ROSI could have brought back. The returns aren't great now because teams saw how insane those deals were and how none of them really worked out for the team acquiring big name players. Returns are much more realistic now. Teams have learned that in the Cap era you can't bring in a lot of high dollar vets without putting you into Cap hell. Drafting and development are even more important then they have been in the past.
Vic
Fri Aug 6 2010 7:55 am EST
Is Sather considered Vermin or Rat Shit? BTW, I love the Pittsburgh the actual city, just hate their hockey team and hockey fans.
Tikkanen
Fri Aug 6 2010 7:48 am EST
A few comments. First, I was born and raised in NJ and lived/worked in NY. I've also lived in several cities around the country and have spent a lot of time in just about every city and state on business. Where a person likes to live and work is very subjective. The things that appeal to one person may completely turn off another person. I can also tell you that there were many times where the initial impression that I had of a city ended up changing the more time I spent there. Sometimes that impression got better, sometimes worse. For me, the place that I fell in love with is the Dallas area. I could spend hours telling you why Dallas is the best place to live and work (IHMO) but in the end it is just my opinion. After having had the experiences that I have had I would NEVER go back and live in NY. Even going back to visit is a beating.
Vic
Fri Aug 6 2010 7:45 am EST
Oh and while we are all gushing about how wonderful MSG is and will be it got the worst vendor rating in all of the US last week. 95% of all the vendors selling food at MSG got the worst ratings from massive amounts of rat shit on counters and in food areas and being infested with roaches and other vermin.
Danylo Halytskyj
Fri Aug 6 2010 7:43 am EST
Same as many people said both Gopmez and Drury would work well with JJ. We all know how that turned out. There is nothing to suggest they would have any chemistry between them or wouldn't. My whole point is that your statement was fairly absolute saying that they would be an awesome tandem when there is no evidence to show they would or would not be.
Danylo Halytskyj
Fri Aug 6 2010 5:52 am EST
oh yeah msg a state of the art, how's the ice going to be? Is there a plan to improve it? probably the same since it's 5 stories above the ground. not important, they'll be more toilets and vending stands. tell sather to come down and sit with the fans every game for a lively chat, he can bring Mess to watch his back. . Avery is one of the few to do it.
stevielegs
Fri Aug 6 2010 2:07 am EST
td.........my saying...."If I'm Staal, I'm outta here" had nothing to do with the arena I worship or the city I call home or the NYR fans.........It only considered winning and the hopes to hoist the cup someday before his prime has passed. He has seen both brothers do this and he must be shaking his head in frustration, knowing that his team is going nowhere fast. He's a competitive Canadian kid. It's all about the cup. Unfortunately, that's not the case for the NYR so it's not a great fit for his career. That's all I meant. BTW, yes NYC can be incredible when you win, but there is no worse place to suck. There is winning and there is misery. Nothing in between.
Ken
Fri Aug 6 2010 12:08 am EST
HOSPO: But you just discredited your whole argument... (smack myself in the forehead)
E
Thu Aug 5 2010 11:12 pm EST
Dany - It's based on knowing the types of players they both are, why else would you think I'd make such a statement? Sure, it's conjecture...based on observation...but It's no more baseless than anything else that people say. What evidence do you have to suggest otherwise? Do you honestly think those two players would suck together? Come on, man...please...
tdchi
Thu Aug 5 2010 10:39 pm EST
Yorkie - I wasn't debating anybody Sparky...jsut exchanging opinions....Have lived in (or close to) both (not long in Ralieigh)...visit both about 3-4 times a year now...Personally, I really don;t give two shits about NYC...Old hat.....I like Raleigh and surrounding area, simple as that...Obviously others feel differently....personal preference...Now, talking about a place to visit is an entirely different story....NYC all the way....
Hospo
Thu Aug 5 2010 9:49 pm EST
What is the statement "a Spezza Gaborik combination would be lethal" based on"? That is pure conjecture. Many stars have been totally incompatible with each other on the ice. There is no way to know whether any two players will click together unless they play together for a bit. To my knowledge Spezza and Gaborik have never played on the same line so to say they would be lethal together is a baseless statement.
Danylo Halytskyj
Thu Aug 5 2010 9:27 pm EST
If SPEZZA is available, he's obviously the best guy to land...A Spezza-Gaborik combination would be lethal...and I see what you're saying about a Savard deal to Ottawa(although I've heard Seguin will be starting the year on the wing)...What's the cost? Well, a lot of the future for one. Spez, I imagine, would run you two of the following: Kreider, Grachev, Stepan, McDonagh, first-round pick in 2010...plus another two of Dubinsky, Staal, MDZ, Callahan...Ottawa, I suppose, could turn around and deal one of the defensemen(probably MDZ, since Staal would cap them out)and a top-round pick for Savard...that would probably work for everyone, though I'm sure the Rangers would have some trepidation over any kids moving to Beantown...even though they're not in the division, they're still nearby...and a constant reminder of how unbelievably bad trades between each other can go(See: Rick Middleton)...But with that said, the Sens insist Spezza is in for the longhaul and a franchise player...Richards could probably be plucked for the right price...say two from the prospect side and one from the established player side...fitting any of these fat contracts on the team would be a feat to say the least, and its true rosterbation to think either Redden or Rozsival will be in Hartford: Believe it when you see it, not a day before...
tdchi
Thu Aug 5 2010 9:16 pm EST
TDCHI: MSG is great, the Rangers fans are great. The city is great. But I think sometimes the nothing west of the Hudson arrogance is in effect. I absolutely guarantee that if you saw the San Jose Sharks and their sold out for the season arena, you might think different. I have been to many arenas in the NHL and nothing but nothing is even remotely as loud. It is ear splitting. It is so much louder then MSG, it makes MSG seem like a high-school football game. The atmosphere is incredible and that said, San Jose is not NY. It is more high-tech, has a better standard of living, has a better lifestyle and enjoys some of the highest rated schools in the country. There is a reason that I traded out NY for the Bay Area. What does NY have that we don't. We are 3 major cities and cultural centers merged into one. We have everything that NY has (and cleaner). NY is NY. This is undeniable, but what I think HOSPO is saying is that the notion of the exclusivity that comes with NY is not as exclusive as it may seem. There are many places to play that have incredible attractions for a player. Its not real anymore to say, "well if it ain't NY it ain't worth a sh*t." Why would anyone choose to play in Detroit is beyond me? Oh... Because they win and sometimes winning is more important to a player.
E
Thu Aug 5 2010 9:12 pm EST
Vic – The funny thing about you saying 'blow it up' is that it's EXACTLY what Sather has done just about EVERY year with exception to a somewhat refreshing period between the fall of 2006 and the summer of2008...The roster turnover from the time Sather got here to now has been off the charts, and that's putting it mildly...The one time he DID do exactly what you suggest, he got NOTHING...he traded nearly HALF his roster in 2004 and you want to know the only thing he has to show for it now? DANE BYERS. Sure he got a few years of Blair Betts and of course, Jagr...but aside from that, even the draft picks he got back didn't pan out...Now I'm sure you'll probably blame this lackluster haul on the lockout...or maybe just Sather...but the reality of the matter is, teams in the hunt for the playoffs AREN'T going to give you much, even for top-line talent...See the Hossa trade...Or the Smyth trade or more recently, the Kovalchuk trade(which is probably the best haul of any deadline deal in the last decade). You're going to get questionable prospects and guys who are longshots...Now factor in the fact that you're talking about trading JAGR(!!!), who seemingly only shows up when he's happy and who if traded, would have cost the buying team $8.3 million(the Washington cash deal would have come off the books in the event of a trade), and then the 30-something crew of Nylander, Straka and Rozsival...You REALLY think Sather would have gotten anything more back that he got for the 2004 deals? That, my friend, is not eternal optimism. It's irrational optimism washed over with a 50-gallon barrel of hindsight.
tdchi
Thu Aug 5 2010 8:50 pm EST
Ken and Hospo – There is a long list of players(Frolov is one of them) who list MSG as their favorite arena to skate in, and frankly I don't blame them. On a night when the Rangers are playing good the place is ALIVE...but moreover, the crowd is animated. How many other arenas do you get something as lasting as the 'Potvin Sucks' chant? Furthermore, the Garden is in the process of getting a $850 million three-year overhaul that will transform it into a modern, state-of-the-art facility on par with all the others around the country...Add to that the fact that players are coddled...well...come on, think logically. You can either live in midtown Manhattan or Westchester and grab a limo in...you're in THE Empire city(bullshit its not as important as it once was)...you're also in a city that LOVES hockey and fills the arean, even when the Rangers are mediocre and are a fourth wheel behind the Yankees, Giants and Knicks...I would say if there's one reason players DO sign in New York, it's because of New York...sure, guys want to win. But I'm sure the guys who sign here don't look at the roster and smirk like us fans...Were I on a team with the likes of Gaborik and Lundqvist, I'd automatically feel like we'd have a chance...AND...on top of all of this, a player that becomes a favorite among fans(See:Avery and Lundqvist) can find themselves with their picture plastered all over god's creation...doing magazine shoots...buying bars...et cetra...When you tabulate it all, there's far more impetus for players to stay...and the ones that typically leave do so for the big payday(See: Jagr, Messier)...Might I remind you guys how bitter Brian Leetch was when he was traded to the hockey capital of the world...why? Was it that the Rangers were so unbelievably good that year, he thought they were going to the cup? Was it that they had a culture of winning? Of course not. The team was the laughing stock of the NHL from the time Smith was fired to the day Leetch was traded...yet he wanted to stay...and you guys think STAAL feels worse now, despite only missing the playoffs ONCE in his career?!? Really, guys...
tdchi
Thu Aug 5 2010 8:47 pm EST
I read this wall almost everyday, and man its effin frustrating being a Ranger Fan....... Go for it, rip it apart, go forward, go backward, wtf?......Personally, my hockey experience is nothing more than playing pickup street hockey, and a love for the game....So from a more than casual fans view: I dont see Drury going anywhere although it keeps being brought up....If Sather could move him, we're golden in comparison to where we are now.....What can be done is that Rozi can be traded and Redden removed, = $11.5million.....I have wanted to chime in on the center position for a while, so here goes....."Please rip this apart and by all means critique the hell out of it, I welcome the schooling.........Now that Seguin is signed, Boston leads the league in being over the cap,($3mill over) & they also need to sign 1 possibly 2 D’man..they currently have 5 centers, unless Seguin plays wing.. Bottom line, they need to cut salary……With our center needs and convinced Sather is not done trading. ..….All the following is based on Redden & Rozi gone and we resign Staal…….Rozi has some trade value, Redden can go melt somewhere……For Center: The 3 most popular names thrown out on the wall: Richards, Savard, Spezza …… I did not check Hockey for Dummies because I figured they wouldn’t know the answers I’m seeking, “those friggin Dummies!”…. Now, I do not know the players styles, strengths or weaknesses, so I went to the stats: ..….. Richards: 30 years old: 6’ 190lbs: went 24g/67a/91 pts.. will cost us some mix of players & maybe picks, however “we risk that he goes the UFA route after 1 season” which is the duration of his current contract, & we could get zero in return on year two..... Savard: 33yrs old: concussed, missed 41 games last year, 10g/23a/33pts,(66 point pace over 82) 7yrs remaining at $4mill per with salary tapering off significantly in yrs 5,6,7, perhaps he, his salary & cap hit can be moved somehow in those later years, he’ll be 38,39,40 respectively..…help me out here, I’m no Capologist…… Spezza: 27 yrs old: 6’3” 215lbs: played 60 games last year (not sure why he missed 22 games) 23g/34a/57pts (77.9 point pace over 82 games) has 5 years remaining with a $7mill cap hit per year: salary $8mill, $8mill, $8mill, $5mill, $4mill,(not too a bad contract to live with)….and rumored that Spezza & Ottawa want to part company…….. Supposedly Savard would accept a trade to Ottawa….and taking his age, concussion and length of salary, size & weight, he’s not my choice….. Leaves us Richards & Spezza …. …….Richards: “IF” Richards can somehow be acquired where he agrees to sign a new contract, or agree to extend his contract say 4 additional years at something reasonable (all of which I’m not sure is allowed) then I’m asking “who” would be a better acquisition for the Rangers: Richards or Spezza?..... I could see the beginnings of a trade where Boston sends Savard to Ottawa, Ottawa trades us Spezza, and you can fill in the peripherals to make it work. We will need to include some players (ie: Dubi, Gilroy, maybe our 1st- in a weak draft year coming up)to make the trade work which should leave us enough cap room to sign another defenseman maybe 2 d’men (Semenov anyone?) ….. Now, can Spezza anchor the 2nd line with Drury on LW, Cally on RW? Why not? That leaves several first line possibilities of Frolov/Prospal-Christiansen/ Gabby…… If need be Torts can line up Spezza on the 1st with Gabby depending on the opposition…. Since I know nothing about Richards, or anything Dallas,or what Dallas may want for Richards and his 1 year contract, I sold myself on Spezza….. Any constructive feedback is welcomed… thank you………End of rosterbation! Ahhhhhh
mf
Thu Aug 5 2010 8:34 pm EST
Ola: And you know that how? Is that your opinion or you have factual proof? Do tell!
RF4L
Thu Aug 5 2010 8:33 pm EST
Zebop: Yep...you're right. Which backs my point...
RF4L
Thu Aug 5 2010 8:28 pm EST
*sigh* reason and comprehension have left the building...
E
Thu Aug 5 2010 7:18 pm EST
HOSPO Did you seriously compare Raleigh a city I lived in to NYC ROFLMAO you lost your whole debate with that statement alone. ROFLMAO people around the world don't talk about visiting Raleigh and seeing what's there. They talk about NYC the biggest city in the world, a city that stops the rest of the country and world in its tracks when tragedy happens. Raleigh is not a blip on the radar of most and it's laughable you compared them and I have lived in both have you?
York18
Thu Aug 5 2010 3:14 pm EST
RF4L, I never mentioned marketing and off-ice dollars etc. re: Staal. Just my opinion that guys who play here generally speaking really like it and would be more apt to stay if they had a choice. Ken confidently saying he'd bolt in a minute if he were Staal I don't think reflects reality. And don't get me started on LeBron. The Knicks could have offered him the world, plus all the Boys and Girls Clubs he could fit in it, and he was still going to follow his friends South.
Zebop
Thu Aug 5 2010 3:06 pm EST
OLA - Whew, thank God! After the Cup year, the Rangers have done so well in attracting Europeans/Russians to come to New York and build the great hoceky dynasty we have all experienced!
Hospo
Thu Aug 5 2010 3:04 pm EST
Zebop - You are right about the Rangers treating their players well and the fact that it is New York has it's positives and makes it a good place to play and work. but,Honestly, with the way other cities have grown, NYC is not that special anymore as so many cities like Raleigh have as much to offer....And MSG is a crummy arena to play in compared to other places....Other arenas get just as crazy and loud as MSG..It comes with winning....And let's not forget that, jsut about everywhere in the US, hockey is a niche sport..If they want the crazies and the crazy atmosphere and attention, they should play in Canada
Hospo
Thu Aug 5 2010 2:49 pm EST
Rf4L- When getting someone like MZA NY et c was definitely a factor.
Ola
Thu Aug 5 2010 2:44 pm EST
IMO, the lure of playing in New York is more a myth than anything else. Yes, I can see how it would attract some, but the big marketing dollars come to any famous US athlete, regardless of whether s/he plays in New York. What's more important, IMO, is the competitiveness of the team. The Rangers are mediocre and don't look like they'll be anything but that for the next few years, at least. Look at all the noise made about Lebron coming to the Knicks? Never happened.
RF4L
Thu Aug 5 2010 2:31 pm EST
I knew that might piss off some Carolinians. ... just my feeling, Hospo, if I was in Staal's shoes. The history of the Rangers, playing in MSG, the city, all that. I'll take your word for it about the Canes arena and fans (never been there), but to me there wouldn't be any comparison to playing in MSG. I have been there during Ranger games when it's been rocking and it's incredible. I also believe countless players who say they Rangers treat them first class and the Garden is a great place to play, atmospherewise (the ice is another story). Staal has experienced all that. I think that counts.
Zebop
Thu Aug 5 2010 2:21 pm EST
Zebop - Why? when's the last time the Rangers went to the CUp finals compared to when the Canes went? Been to a few Canes games, they got some great and intense fans..and Raleigh is a great city....
Hospo
Thu Aug 5 2010 1:54 pm EST
Ken, thank goodness you're not Staal, then. Maybe he likes being a Ranger. I say Eric should come here! It beats playing hockey in North Carolina, I would think.
Zebop
Thu Aug 5 2010 1:44 pm EST
Ken: The year Chery was picked, I cant remember a team that didnt say he was a top 5 tallent, but they didnt want to risk a pick that high if he didnt come across the pond. Every year now it seems that there is a player with a great skill set that is passed up by almost every team. Anyway, the kid probably would have been a top line, or at the very least a 2nd line player accoring to everyone who watched him play at all....I know its not a sure thing, but he was one of the safest bets the Ragners have had in a long time for a forward. The only forward I can tihnk of who has been talked about like Cheraponov was, is a current prospect in Kreider...it doesnt hapen alot. (expecially with the rangers)
Wildcard
Thu Aug 5 2010 1:41 pm EST
if it was a rebuild, then guys like Drury, Redden, and Rozival can stay, because few will come here besides complete mercenaries. And Gaborik and Henrik might want out. possibly along with Staal and others. Sather doesn't know how to go for it, this is the best he can do while he waits for luck or jimmy to start screaming.
stevielegs
Thu Aug 5 2010 12:56 pm EST
One other thing...........If I'm Marc Staal, I cannot wait to get the hell out of here! Then where are we?
Ken
Thu Aug 5 2010 12:54 pm EST
Ken/Hospo etc: I agree. Go for it before it is too late. I'd love to see a rebuild and a solid young core of future superstars. But that is not reality! And even if it was, in Buttman's New NHL (where no good team goes unpunished) you have to go for it quickly before your core gets too expensive to keep. (look at the Hawks and how the salary cap has decimated a great team and how would you like to be a Hawks fan right now?) We do have a few special players who are going to be wasting their prime because of the clueless/directionless owner and GM. We have a 'Go For IT' goaltender, sniper, and coach surrounded by what could be a solid supporting cast if the (cap busting) bums were cast off so more solid pieces could be brought in. Spinning the wheels another season or two just makes our current great players one/two year(s) older and the youth that may make the team down the line are not good enough (potential-wise) that you waste the prime years of our current stars. Rangers fans always seem to be waiting for that next great crop of youngsters to come up together. It has never happened and probably never will in NY. So what? It never happens for the Yankees either, (other than around 94-96) and that never hurt them. Look to get one or two really good players every 5 years or so and we would be ahead of the game. meanwhile go for it before Hank and Gabby are over the hill.
NYStranger
Thu Aug 5 2010 12:54 pm EST
Rhet0ric........yeah, you would think the Genious could do better than an aging Prospal, a donner than done White, and a waiver wire journeyman wouldn't ya? Absolutely incredible that Sather did not draft a center with any of his NYR 1st round picks. Looking back at all the centers that went in those drafts is nauseating. Even Nylander was a bit of an older journeyman. Unbelievable. What is it with the NYR and centermen? Take away Mess and an old Gretzky and man it's ugly.
Ken
Thu Aug 5 2010 12:46 pm EST
davidsoc......But Cherry was a 17th OA pick. I know all about the Russian contract concerns and all but how likely is it that Sather would have been the only one in the know on this kid while most others with much better draft judgement track records passed on his selection? Based on factual history, I would not have bet much that he would have become a major factor. Maybe he was the next Kovalev? Maybe he was the next Bure? Probably not though...........................You know what's absolutely amazing to me about Sather's draft record? The guy, in all his years here, only sought out to draft a skilled offensive forward ONCE (Cherry). You want to count Kreider? Even more amazing is that he had Lundquist from the beginning, yet spent two of his highest draft choices on Blackburn, then Montoya. Jessibust, role player superb Korpikoski.............Just unbelievable! Even in the Cherry year, his next pick is goalie Antoine Lafleur!!! WTF? On D, if McIlrath and DZ don't become real good D-men, all he has is Staal and I think the only reason he picked him was he recognized the name. This guy is our very own Bill Wirtz.
Ken
Thu Aug 5 2010 12:36 pm EST
TD... I remember him being quoted the first couple of years he came up that it would be nice to play with one of his brothers somewhere down the road... I never said that the four of them had a plan... regardless, I've read multiple reports that he wants to experience Free Agency and would prefer to sign a contract no longer than 3 years... Marc is without a doubt, hugely competitive with his brothers (two of whom have already won the cup)... If we are not a contender by then, there is a good chance he decides to walk, no matter where the destination ends up being... MF... It's believed his agent has asked for as much as $5Mil per season... why not? It's as much as ROSZIVAL is making and STAAL is head and shoulders the much better defender.... I think both sides will settle on a 3-year deal worth $12-13 Mil... As an FYI, both ERIC and JORDAN went through similar negotiations with their respective teams... KEN... If we could just get a true #1 center, it would fix so many things that are wrong on this team... it would be far from perfect, but it would certainly make the team easier to watch... Then we'd just have to worry about getting rid of the GM and Coach :)
Rhet0ric
Thu Aug 5 2010 11:42 am EST
Ken: I'm not suggesting that Cherepanov was going to be the next Jagr, but he would have been a part of the future for us offensively. We will never know how good he would have been...I agree with you that trading for Zherdev was a mistake. Once Jagr left Sather should have went to rebuild mode. There was no way that team was making a legit run for the cup so why not be sellers and at least get some assets to try and build with. Who knows maybe we would be in a better position today. Just my opinion.
davidsoc30
Thu Aug 5 2010 11:26 am EST
Hospo..............100% right in "shit or get off the pot." I really can't even think about a rebuild anymore as it is just so far from reality and all things NYR are so f**ked to even talk about. That opportunity is gone. Reality now is.......Lundquist is here in his prime and we have a few good young players and Gaborik. There's no choice now but to go for it. No way should Sather be allowed to sit all comfy and go halfway again here. He needs to immediately remove Redden, Rosival, Drury, Avery, Prospal, ANYBODY making $$$, maybe even Dubi.........Trade for Richards, sign Kovy, sign Mitchell, go young with the rest of the lineup........Could that possibly be worse??? How many goals can we expect from the current roster forward group? 160? Making the above moves probably adds 50 goals, gives you two good scoring lines and slightly improves the D. I don't want to hear from Sather that it can't be done. BS, he created this mess and he seems pretty good at surviving his messes. NYR fans need to demand this man do his job and get this organization moving forwards (or backwards). He can't just sit there serving us this crap year after year.
Ken
Thu Aug 5 2010 11:11 am EST
TDCHI - "If you're gonna do it, AT LEAST go for broke; do a multi-player that brings back something good"..Yep, shit or get off the pot! This middle of the road crap is nauseating...
Hospo
Thu Aug 5 2010 11:10 am EST
Ken - I like the way you have come to your senses recently........:)
Hospo
Thu Aug 5 2010 11:09 am EST
tdchi.....If I can just jump in on your talk with Vic, my opinion is that it was time for JJ and posse to go after 2008. He had his last hurrah and it didn't get us near the 3rd round. JJ and Avery leaving were the right decisions IMO as Avery wanted too much $$$........if Sather had paid him we'd be in even worse shape now. THE PROBLEM to me was....where were the replacements from within for JJ and Avery.........there were none because our drafting was horrible. THAT forced a horrible move of a successfully homegrown talent in Tyutin for an offensive talent in Zherdev......All comes down to having not drafted ANY 1st line wingers or centers in all of Sather's years. They should have had a guy ready to step in when JJ was done.....(wasn't JJ "just until the kids are ready???") What kids??? We're still playing that same game. Sign Gabby, bring in Frolov, not good enough but, out of spending $$$$. The Sather bus keeps a rollin'. It's all BS.
Ken
Thu Aug 5 2010 10:59 am EST
tdchi.....yeah, just a couple of years ago, the NYR had a league wide respected, excellent 4th line in Hollweg/Betts/Orr and they had depth substitutions for the wingers..............Fast forward two years and Slats has taken away three pretty much homegrown guys (I considered Orr just about a homegrown guy), and he had replaced them with Brashear/Boyle/Voros...........No improvement, most would say much less, plus more $$$!!! Not to mention the incredible insult of Brashear in and Betts to the door. Godawful........Sather should have been fired for that turnover and the Tyutin for Zherdev move alone..............The NYR could ice a tremendous homegrown 3rd and 4th line right now if they had just kept what they had. Hell Manny Malhotra should still be here! That was never the problem but screwing with the role players every year and removing the Hartford grads and the original "Renney's Rangers" destroyed any chemistry there was. I always associated Renney more with those guys anyway. JJ, Renney had to manage and they butted heads often with Renney stepping aside. It was like the role guys would go through a wall for the coach while the prima donna group did what they wanted. Shanahan was a bit of glue in between.............This team simply needs a 1st line and a 1st pair D. That's all they've ever needed since the lockout.........THAT is where the draft has failed the organization (your 1st round picks have to serve to fill major roles on the team, not support roles) and that is why all we have is a purchased Gaborik with a waiver wire center and a couple of journeymen up front. That's why we'll have Frolov this year as well. It's almost impossible to buy your top guys...........yet, if you must, there is still 27 year old Ilya Kovalchuk and you certainly could do much worse.........I've been preaching since the JJ trade deadline to trade everybody but the kids, start over and go back and finish what should have been done right in 2004-2007.....I still think that is the best way out of this mess (especially considering the cap problems now).......but, if that just 'aint gonna happen, then dammit, bring an elite talent like Kovalchuk in here, a Richards, get a defenseman........There are guys on the roster making big $$$ that are tradable now. What the hell is Sather doing here??? Don't answer that question......we all know the answer. 8th place or bust with a maxed out cap (of course, "just until the kids are ready";) I'm not in a good mood today. It's been a long summer.
Ken
Thu Aug 5 2010 10:49 am EST
I thought you guys weren't gonna over-analyze any more? :)
Hospo
Thu Aug 5 2010 9:36 am EST
TD: First, I was referring to the JJ teams in general, both the teams that lost to the Buffalo and the team that lost to the Pens. Second, to believe that any of the JJ teams had a chance to win a Cup is eternal optimism in my opinion. You probably won't remember this but I was a very vocal person here to SELL off JJ, NYLANDER, STRAKA, ROSI, etc at the deadline 18 months before JJ became a free agent. I NEVER believed that the teams built around JJ could compete for a Cup and I wanted to blow it up well before SATHER got around to it. I wanted to blow it up when it could be used to bring in young 1st line talent and prospects. It was all a big waste of time and assets and I said it here over and over. We are exactly where I thought we were going to end up 5 years after that point in time.....wandering through mediocre season after mediocre season. Not good enough to compete and not bad enough to get the chance to rebuild. In other words we are in a place that as a fan I can only call HELL.
Vic
Thu Aug 5 2010 8:50 am EST
Vic - You seemingly like to put words into my mouth...I never said anything about 'being one or two players away from the cup,' since I really don't think that way about teams...True, you never know what 'one or two players' will do to a roster(See: Sean Avery's impact on the Rangers; or better yet, Bill Guerin's impact on the Pens in 2008)...but my POINT was that the Rangers HAD the tools to move forward in the RIGHT direction before Sather dismantled it from the top down...what players did after that is all conjecture IMO...there's no way of telling what the 2008-2009 Rangers would have been like with Jagr and Avery and Tyutin in the lineup...and we'll never know, since Sather blew that roster to smithereens not only in the summer of 2008, but again in the summer of 2009, there by setting back the team by what I personally estimate to be roughly THREE YEARS...And that's 'eternal optimism?' Sha. Right. Okay there buddy...BTW...Nylander had nothing to do with the 2008 cup run...he was on the Caps by that time.
tdchi
Thu Aug 5 2010 8:41 am EST
Rhet - The only connection I've heard about the Staal brothers wanting to unite is through fans who think its cool to have a bunch of brothers on a team...I remember hearing the same stuff when Joel Lundqvist was a UFA...how he and Hank wanted to play together...nothing based in fact, just fan-musing(although on a side tangent, I'd take the twin over Christensen and White in the center any day)...On the role players...I think it goes a little deeper than fans latching onto specific guys for whatever reason...first, I've long maintained it's the role guys who generally come through as the heroes of cup lore...sure, you're not going to win with ALL role players...but having guys that believe in their team and more importantly, their POSITION on the team is vital...so sure, guys like Ortmeyer or Betts, or Moore or Hollweg...hell, even Dawes, Prucha and Korpikoski ain't going to pot you many goals and their play isn't going to dazzle...but they're going to show up to play hard everyday, and in the end, that brings energy to the rest of the team...for instance, I can't say I remember any of the aforementioned players taking a night off...I think its also a matter of identity...it's easier to relate with a team when you've got a somewhat static group of guys filling out the roster...yet as Ken alluded, Sather always seems to try to upgrade these spots...I think he figures they're expendable(which to some extent they are), so he rolls the dice in the hope that he hits sevens...yet he never does....Moore he traded for Adam Hall...Hollweg for a pick, replacing him with Sjostrom...Ortmeyer was simply let go...Dawes and Prucha to rent Derrick Morris for a month...Korpikoski was turned into 57 games of Lisin(and one game that was spent stapled to the bench for 60 minutes...I still haven't got over that yet)...Betts was let go and replaced by Boyle...and so it goes...That's my issue with Sather and his propensity for moving these lower-line guys...If you're gonna do it, AT LEAST go for broke; do a multi-player that brings back something good.
tdchi
Thu Aug 5 2010 8:40 am EST
TD: Is your main implication that the Rangers were just a player or two away from winning a Cup back then??? If it is then YES, that is misguided, eternal optimism. You are looking back at a team that in my opinion at that time, and still today, overachieved to get as far as they did. You are looking at the end result and saying "look how well we did! How much better could we have done with a little change or two?". The other way to look at that is more along the lines of the "career year" principal. What that means is that the result you saw may have been the best that those players and that team was capable of. It was their career year. Believing that you could build off of that high is a disastrous misjudgment. I think the fact that just about every one of those players struggled in subsequent years (with the Rangers or not) tends to support my viewpoint. JJ, NYLANDER, STRAKA, SHANNY, AVERY, ROSI, etc....
Vic
Thu Aug 5 2010 6:52 am EST
gross..."....AG: The Rangers will likely find themselves in the same spot they’ve been the past few seasons – among a group of teams battling for the final three playoff spots in the East. Trouble is, both the Thrashers and Lightning improved more in the offseason, though it can be argued both the Canadiens and Sabres have slipped. I do think it goes back Biron and how successfully he can spell Lundqvist."....
stevielegs
Thu Aug 5 2010 6:33 am EST
Don't know if I obsess over the loss of role players but sometimes there is no reason to let a really good one go. The Rangers are still trying to replace Tie Domi.
Danylo Halytskyj
Thu Aug 5 2010 6:23 am EST
Staal will probably leave to play with a brother asap. There is little connection to a crest in the buttman nhl. They need to adopt the baseball version, so the NYR can get their very own 600 homer $mil steroid man, or preferably the M&M boys and Yogi et al. Then there would probably be Richards and Kovalchuk here, and more Staals ala the Holik Kasper team.And maybe someday catch up to the NYY.................
stevielegs
Thu Aug 5 2010 12:13 am EST
MF: Staal wants as much as he can get but he does have limited bargaining power. One thing is for certain however, Staal most certainly will be playing for the New York Rangers assuming a surprise trade.
E
Wed Aug 4 2010 11:38 pm EST
Rhet: re Staal: any idea on the $$$ amount this kid wants ????
mf
Wed Aug 4 2010 10:55 pm EST
STAAL... His contract stalemate seems to have come down to number of years more than anything else... The Ranger want longer term, STAAL would like only a 3-year deal so he could experience being an UFA... It has been mentioned in the past that he would like to play with one or more of his brothers in the future... maybe there is some truth to it... The DUCKS seem to be having similar problems with RYAN... I wonder if the two teams start discussing a possible trade for the 2 players at some point... ZEBOP... I've never understood some of the facination RANGER fans have had with some players over the years... I'm sure to this day there are still people who want KOVALEV back... but the role players that get obsessed over just amaze me that much more... I'm sure if we hadn't traded NICKLAS SUNDSTROM, he'd still be playing to this day :) ...TIM KENNEDY... Has cleared waivers and now an UFA... I wouldn't mind seeing the RANGERS taking a shot at him now... he wouldn't cost too much, considering the entire League passed on paying him $1.2 Mil and the fact that the SABRES are also paying him $333K this year for his buyout... he'd give us some depth in case we do make another deal or two.
Rhet0ric
Wed Aug 4 2010 10:19 pm EST
tdchi.........agree with you on the chemistry thing and Sather completely screwing up the chemistry that fell into his lap. That roster had a lot to like, problem was all the big guns were purchased and most aging beyond repair. Agree on Tyutin too. That was a ridiculous move to cover up, what else, the lack of skilled guys who can score.........He also has discarded many GOOD homegrown roleplayers since the lockout in an effort to find ones with more skills. How about getting 1st liners with some skills? There was never anything wrong with Orts, Ward, Betts, Moore, Orr, and the one being discussed here all day, one of my favs, Hollweg........Hospo, I loved Holly too because he was rare for a Ranger in that he initiated contact and mean spirited play. He was proactive physically, not reactive. The kind of guy that wouldn't think twice about running Philly's goalie on the first shift, in Philly. Bad penalties? Sure. So what. Loved the guy, his guts, and his reckless play. Take that on the 4th line over a Freddy Shoestrom anyday. Ryan Hollweg was a hockey player.........and a RANGER. To think Donald Brashear skated in a spot he should have occupied last year.......it's criminal.
Ken
Wed Aug 4 2010 7:16 pm EST
Sorry Captain Ego I did not blame you today and I did not blame you a year ago and I doubt you know the real reason the guy left as I am sure only he knows that.
Danylo Halytskyj
Wed Aug 4 2010 7:12 pm EST
Yo-yo this hardcore ghetto gangster image takes a lot of practice, I'm not black like Todd White no I am white like Frank Black is.
FerociousMonk
Wed Aug 4 2010 6:21 pm EST
Vic - I'm hoping that's tongue in cheek...I hardly would describe my outlook for the Rangers as 'eternal optimism'...I've expressed optimism for the future, but it's hardly what one could feasibly consider eternal...Ken - The way I see it is the Rangers had the better goaltender, better experience and even better chemistry than those Penguins, who while talented, were also showing signs of their young age...Say what you will about calls and whatnot, but there were PLENTY of instances where the Rangers were put a man down because of questionable calls...and really, that's how the Pens were beating teams...get PP, put Crosby and Malkin out and score goals...My point, however, wasn't that they were assured of a victory against Pittsburgh in 2007-2008...but that they had the right chemistry on the ice going forward...can I point to a guy who left the Rangers that year and really took off? Not really... I guess you could argue TYUTIN...and JAGR continued his production level(albeit in the KHL where Marcel HOSSA was a leading goal scorer)...but again NOT MY POINT...I've discussed this with you before...Chemistry is the hallmark of ALL great NHL teams...if you have it, you can take a mediocre squad and go miles with it. If you DON'T have it, you can take an all-star team and still end up outside the playoff bracket...The Rangers that year showed signs of good chemistry, balanced lines and toughness...which are all elements that likely would have improved over time...Now imagine or a minute the Rangers DID what I suggested and kept the team together...then used a draft pick and a prospect to acquire a hard-hitting defenseman...or better yet, sign Marc Streit...or Brooks Orpik...guess what...the 2008-2009 season is a MUCH different ballgame...I'll also point out the almighty Pens that year went through a cold spell where they nearly didn't MAKE the playoffs...It's all hindsight and 20/20 now, but I maintain the moves Sather made in 2008 set the dial back on this club nearly three years...and he did it again in 2009...now we have a situation where he MIGHT ice a team that features about two-thirds of the players from the previous season...Start the clock ticking...BTW...does that sound like "eternal optimism" there Vic?!?
tdchi
Wed Aug 4 2010 6:11 pm EST
DANY, you are correct, that is why ORD left, but alas you did blame me as did others today. That is why I find it funny.
York18
Wed Aug 4 2010 5:25 pm EST
Though I have been reading the wall for ages I don't think I have been posting as long ago as a year. And I am pretty sure it was probably Ferocious Monk that was the reason ORD left if I recall correctly.
Danylo Halytskyj
Wed Aug 4 2010 5:18 pm EST
Zebop - sometimes you just like a player...And,, honesty, for that first year and half, Hollweg was a very entertaing and important player for the Rangers...jagr and His posse brought the talent, but Hollweg, Orts and Betts (under Renney's direction), helped bring back fire, hard work, and togetherness to the Rangers..It was awelcome change...I guess that's why I liked him..even after all his brain farts later on which made it necessary for him to go..
Hospo
Wed Aug 4 2010 5:00 pm EST
Well said KEN. Remember, you are talking to eternal optimists and a self describe hater of all things Penguin. Take it with a grain of salt....
Vic
Wed Aug 4 2010 4:48 pm EST
I don't know tdchi.........The Pens swept round 1 (4-0), took the NYR in 5 games (Outshooting them and shutting them out in game 2, then dominating them in the series clinching game 5, outshooting the NYR 40-22). The Pens then took out the Flyers 4-1, before falling to the league elite Red Wings 4 games to 2......................................So, how is it that the NYR were so close, yet the Red Wings proved how far away the Penns were? I don't get it. The Penns proved how close they were the next year while most of the NYR roster faded into the sunset, never to make much of an impact in the NHL again......some are hanging in there while Hank is the only one from that team to ever be a star in the league since. There's zero comparison between those two teams as far as I can see and to argue it is silly (IMO)........I remember after that year everyone said "it was the refs," "we got robbed," etc..........fine, so how come none of the individual NYR went on to greatness after that? Let me get this straight..........The 2007-2008 NYR were an amzing assembly of talent that combined to form such great chemistry that they lost 4-1 in round two to a Stanley Cup Finalist who won the cup the next year.........??? We STILL believe we were as good as Pittsburgh, all the evidence be damned! I don't get it. I just don't get it. Easier I guess to blame refs than to accept that the one decent team Sather was able to somehow assemble could even come close to beating a group of up and coming kids put together by our hated rivals through the good old tank & draft method...........The truth hurts but we weren't that good at all. We never were.
Ken
Wed Aug 4 2010 4:37 pm EST
Not sure what the fascination with Hollweg was/is. I liked him as an energy guy when he was on the ice, but half the time he wasn't because of boarding penalties or whatever. The Rangers wouldn't be any better with him right now so, again, I don't get the love (thanks for bringing it up, anyway, Hospo :) ... If he was so valuable he wouldn't be a minor leaguer now.
Zebop
Wed Aug 4 2010 3:23 pm EST
interesting guys like Hollweg, Strudwick, Avery, Orr etc , were all gone , yet the gm still talks about never being tough enough. And goes out and gets replacements, many at more $,.................except getting lucky with Avery, but he's basically been neuteured by the NHL & his coach, teamates, & gm.
stevielegs
Wed Aug 4 2010 3:05 pm EST
Count me as one who wouldn't be surprised to see JESSIMAN make the Hawks this season as a fourth liner...but for what it's worth, I think they signed him a while ago..BTW...the Hawks also happen to have Jeff TAFFE on their roster(though I'll bet a sixer he starts in the AHL)...as some will remember, he was the piece of garbage Gretzky gave the Rangers for Lundmark, another great Ranger draft pick...Taffe moped in NY and was traded BACK to Phoenix for AHL garbage Martin Sonnenberg, who to this day plays in Europe...For the record, that's a 9th and 12th overall lost for NOTHING...Hospo – WTF? We agree again. I liked HOLLWEG from the time we drafted him to his last game as a Ranger, which happened to be the game that he took the boarding penalty against the Pens. I saw that game, then the fan reaction and new he was a goner. Going back to my whole theory about where the team was that year, Hollywood was a favorite among players...a locker-room character who was cast away for a pick(prospect Roman Horak) that wouldn't help the team in the short run and may never help them at all...in contrast, they went into the 2008-2009 year PAINFULLY short on guys who could skate and hit like Hollweg did. To compound matters, half the forward line were midgets...When I saw the Leafs put him on waivers, I was half hoping the Rangers would take him back...oh well...Ken...Trading for Jagr was addition by subtraction first of all(Anson “Snoop” Carter, the schmuck who cared more about landing a rap album than a hit, went the other way...thank the stars)...second, Lundqvist was ready the day he showed up in NY. Remember, he was SUPPOSED to be the backup to Weekes. He played Weekes out of a job in the first 10 games basically...About my statement on the Pens and Rangers...they were VERY closely matched for several reasons...the first being Malkin and Crosby were teenagers with lots of talent, but hardly any maturity...the Wings hammered that point home in the finals that year...Jagr was playing at his TOP level at the time, and was basically matching their play hands down...Also...remember both Crosby and Fleury were coming of long-term injuries...That Pens team was WAY too immature to win a cup, and they were bound to fall at some point. The Rangers, OTOH, had a great mix of youth(Dubinsky, Callahan, Tyutin and Staal), vet experience(Straka, Shanny and Jagr), players in their prime(Gomez and Drury) and muscle(Hollweg and Orr)...It was a great team and there was no reason to dismantle it, other than the disconnect between Jagr and Sather...Drew...remember Olczyk was a former 30-goal, point-